Outside lights, controlled via PIR with override switch & timer?

[Andeh1]

Hi,

We have some outside lights which are successful controlled via 2 x PIR sensors. One that covers you as you step outside the front door and one around the other side of the house where you drive into the driveway.

We also have a switch by the front door for us to turn the PIRs 'on' (they then come on & turn themselves off, but are controlled now by PIR) but also over ride them 'off'. This all works fine.

We also spec'd a timer/have cabled for it, that would have the lights come on for set periods of the day, ie ambient lighting morning & evenings/enable us to have them on for a longer period of time.

Our electrician is trying to work out a way to do it, so that the whole system works OK...ie PIRs, manual switch & then also a timer to do it.

I accept I have over complicated things, so if it can't be done I may have to accept this!!

However...before I do give up on it, does anyone here have any pointers I could suggest to our electrician to enable this to work?

The ideal:

Default; During winter we have the switch 'on', enaling PIRs to control the lighting. They trigger as we step out the front door and/or as we drive home.
''off'' via switch; we turn them off at night due to wild life triggering them/holidays [on via switch enables PIR]
Timer; can over ride PIRs and Switch for eg hour in the morning/hour in evening for our commutes....also gives us a way of 'forcing them on' for long periods


Does anyone know if this would work, or whether (as per our Electrician's thoughts, timer -vs- PIR) is likely to cause problems? Just welcome anything I can suggest to Electrician to try?

Many thanks,

 

[johnb2713]

Thats an easy one really.

 

[UNG]

Thats an easy one really.

View attachment 16022

The timer would need to overide the switch that sends power to the PIR's to work as the OP wants

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

You probably need a better electrician if they cannot figure how to wire any combination and/or permutation of switch devices to operate any light(s)

e.g.
'Manual switch',
'Timer switch',
'Dusk/dawn switch',
'PIR movement switch'.
can easily be connected in various parallel or series configurations to achieve any desired operation.

The only issues that I could see is that if you already have cables installed and you require some additional wiring that is not cost effective to install?

 

[johnb2713]

The timer would need to overide the switch that sends power to the PIR's to work as the OP wants

I did note what they said but I don't see any disadvantage in having the switch to switch it off completely. If they the PIR to work it, switch on, if they want timed lighting program the timer / enable the timer program. An easy change to make if they really want the timer to override it all completely.

 

[kerching]

I would question the abilities of this electrician

 

[Andeh1]

Thank you all, Electrician is a good guy but its a very complicated 4 way switch controlling 3 lots of external lighting which all have PIR's as well all contained in the back box....how he can make sense of it I don't know!!

Ideally I would like the timer to over ride the switch if possible? Ie have the timer bringing the lights on for our exit & arrival to the house, but have the PIR disabled? Would that be a change to John's sketch?

I am hopefully the 3 core from the mains witch to the utility room is sufficient to enable this? As the house is otherwise finished.....?

 

[Andeh1]

Morning all, sorry to post again but electrician is due back tomorrow and I'd like to suggest to him a resolution from the help you guys have given!

Just as per above, could John's drawing work for the timer to override the switch/PIR setup that is installed & working currently? We have a 3 core from the swirch panel back to utility for this timer.

Thank you!

 

[kerching]

How does the timer know when you are returning to the house so it can put the lights on if the PIR is disabled?
Or have I missed something?

 

[Andeh1]

It's an either or type turn on for the lights.

Ie.... Timer is set and turns lights on every morning for an hour and ever evening.

And/or

if the switch is 'on', and we drive back home middle of the night, then PIR turns lights on for us.


Seperate to this, if the switch is 'off'....

1) Timer turns lights on and off morning and evening as above.

2) swe come home late at night, switch is off.. So PIR DOESN'T turn the lights on.


(switch enables us to turn PIR off in case wild life prove to be a nusiance)

 

[johnb2713]

Here you go.....

 

[binky]

ISeperate to this, if the switch is 'off'....

1) Timer turns lights on and off morning and evening as above.

2) swe come home late at night, switch is off.. So PIR DOESN'T turn the lights on.


(switch enables us to turn PIR off in case wild life prove to be a nusiance)

just take a live feed from the switch, unswitched side for the timer.

Ideally you would use an 'astrological timer' adjusts itself for winter and summer time differences, and photocell, so timer controls power to photocell, and photocell prevents lights coming on if it's daylight. It can be bright and sunny at 5am in high summer, and still light at 10,30pm. NB photocell will turn lights on briefly when powered up as it adjusts itself to light levels.

Wildlife and even moving vegatation can trigger PIRs, which can be very annoying.

 

[Murdoch]

I wouldn’t bother with the timer as you have to spend time adjusting it all the year, and use one of these:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/STNM3000B.html

 

[kerching]

As @johnb2713 said it's a simple control circuit, That any spark worth his salt should be able to do. I hope he is giving you. Substantial discount for
A) educating him
B)bailing him out

As @Murdoch intimated, those photocells are very good

 

[johnb2713]

I wouldn’t bother with the timer as you have to spend time adjusting it all the year, and use one of these:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/STNM3000B.html

The OP actually said they wanted the timer to put the lights on

As @johnb2713 said it's a simple control circuit, That any spark worth his salt should be able to do. I hope he is giving you. Substantial discount for
A) educating him
B)bailing him out

As @Murdoch intimated, those photocells are very good

he hasn’t got my bill yet

 

[Murdoch]

The OP actually said they wanted the timer to put the lights on

The device I’m suggesting will only put the lights on when it gets dark

 

[johnb2713]

The device I’m suggesting will only put the lights on when it gets dark

I’m sure it does but it’s not what the customer wants

 

[Andeh1]

Thank you VERY much all, and John for sketching it out. I have forwarded your drawing to him, I now await his response! I will update this post accordingly....

 

[Murdoch]

I’m sure it does but it’s not what the customer wants

not how I read it ….

 

[johnb2713]

not how I read it ….

Mmmm, well I don’t quite see how this can be read any different…….
“Timer; can over ride PIRs and Switch for eg hour in the morning/hour in evening for our commutes....also gives us a way of 'forcing them on' for long periods”
Not to worry, maybe I’m off in a parallel universe in my world as you said