PIR at factory

[danny7299]

Just a quick one,

Went to do a pir at a factory its a 3ph TNCS . from the cut out the 25mm tails go into henley blockes and then are split into 4 boards ,

should there be a main Isolator for the whole installation?

cheers

 

[ElectekAir]

From what you have said NO

 

[batty]

In an ideal world you would have one isolator for installation but as long as boards are reasonably close together this is not necessary although I do seem to remember something about having one means of isolation when doing 17th.

 

[sellers]

It doesn't seem right to me, if needing to isolate 1 board then you have to isolate all 4.

 

[initforthemoney]

Each DB is an installation.

Therefore all circuits from each DB is an installation regardless of how many DB's there are in one building.

 

[kme]

Each DB is an installation.Therefore all circuits from each DB is an installation regardless of how many DB's there are in one building.

Care to back that (incorrect) statement up with fact?

try BRB, chapter 2: definitions.

specifically, bottom of p23

Lets also go for 537.1.4

.....

KME

 

[Andy™]

Each DB is an installation.Therefore all circuits from each DB is an installation regardless of how many DB's there are in one building.

^ what he says

dont have regs to hand, but i did make a post a while back with exactly what regs/definitions say this. ill see if it can find it

 

[Evans Electric]

I was brought up with Commercial and Industrial premises to have a main switch , any splitting coming after. I think they gave up with Domestic premises, unless they class the cut out fuse.

 

[Lee321]

i'd like to see individual isolation

not sure if a reg too?

 

[Andy™]

cant find the post i was on about earlier.

anyway, from what i remember, there is nothing to stop there being more than 1 installation in the same building. so providing each installation has its own islation, your sorted.

and for those who still dont agree, what would you do in large building where there is more than feed from DNO.

 

[Lee321]

its not we don't agree about more than 1 install andy but more on the inconvience side of say isolating all db's to work on 1!

 

[green-hornet]

What are you lot like?

Why over complicate everything? how I work is like this, from the main supply I always like to supply a disconnecter across all phases, this allows for total disconnection for the building, this can be done by individual circuit or should I say Distribution circuit, or everything.

One of the main problems I find when you have to work on any installation, is the allowed timescales imposed for everything from repairs and fault finding to full testing and verification.

I have recently done a rewire where each room can be individually isolated, so any pir or faults can be done without any disruption to the business, other than the effected room.

I am surprised that most electricians never think of this in the original design stage.

If you incorporate as many isolation possibilities as possible, the electrical installation is truly installed to enable all subsequent works to be unobtrusive and a dream as an electrician to work on.

 

[Lee321]

most of us are with YOU gh :C

 

[initforthemoney]

Care to back that (incorrect) statement up with fact?try BRB, chapter 2: definitions.

specifically, bottom of p23

Lets also go for 537.1.4

.....

KME

Hmmmmm.

Sorry to disappoint you.

And i quote:

537.1.4

"A main linked switch or linked circuit breaker shall be procided as near as practicable to the origin of every installation as a means of switching the supply on load and as a means of isolation.

A main switch intended for operation by............. shall interrupt both live conductors of a single phase supply".

Ill try and explain....

An installation is exactly that. There could be more than one in a building.

Therefore for each CU/DB (installation), there must be a main switch, which all have.

There does not need to be a single point for the whole premises or building in one switch.

Indeed, most new properties, albeit domestic or commercial generally have an isolator installed by the DNO, but thats only for OUR convenience.

So im afraid, your argument is, not strictly 100% correct.

 

[green-hornet]

initforthemoney can I ask you a question? do you have another user name on this forum?The only reason I ask is, sad as I am, I know my wife tells me so, your answers and argument (thats debate as attested in dictionary) are conductive of a member who enjoyed disrupting any meaningful discussion.

I would rather everyone to be truthful, than to hide beyond anoniminity.

I am the absolute best electrician ever born, I know everything there is to know, until some apprentice comes up to me and tells me a better way of doing it.

What I am trying to say is that whilst I know everything I know nothing, and I learn from everyone.

 

[initforthemoney]

initforthemoney can I ask you a question?do you have another user name on this forum? Nope. Its me and only me

The only reason I ask is, sad as I am, I know my wife tells me so, your answers and argument (thats debate as attested in dictionary) are conductive of a member who enjoyed disrupting any meaningful discussion. Far from it. I am new to forums. I dont put answers across very well which is why it appears that way.

I would rather everyone to be truthful, than to hide beyond anoniminity. See above

I am the absolute best electrician ever born, I know everything there is to know, until some apprentice comes up to me and tells me a better way of doing it. Im afraid i am the best.

What I am trying to say is that whilst I know everything I know nothing, and I learn from everyone. Not convinced i follow

My red.

For some reason Mr KME seems to have a fetish about proving me wrong all the time.

God knows why.

 

[Lee321]

^sorry

132.10 & 314.1(i,ii)

 

[kme]

Hmmmmm.Sorry to disappoint you.

Trust me....you haven`t

for each CU/DB (installation), there must be a main switch, which all have.

Sorry - I disagree.

There does not need to be a single point for the whole premises or building in one switch.

Indeed, most new properties, albeit domestic or commercial generally have an isolator installed by the DNO, but thats only for OUR convenience.

So im afraid, your argument is, not strictly 100% correct.

So, are we saying that a domestic premises, with a sub-main to a seperate DB local to the kitchen, and another sub-main to a garage CU, is 3 installations? And if I do a PIR of, a commercial premises with 50+ DBs, I have that many installations???

For some reason Mr KME seems to have a fetish about proving me wrong all the time.

God knows why.

OK.

Mr KME does, indeed have some fetishes.

However, they are not for discussion on this forum (minors can access).

Nevertheless, none of said fetishes, in any way, have any bearing on you.

Maybe it just seems that way to you, as you fail to back up things you say, and provide "half-hearted" (at best) argumentative posts, consistently.

As I appear to be causing you some consternation, I shall attempt to refrain from posting my views on your comments from now on. :coat

 

[Watchdog]

My red. For some reason Mr KME seems to have a fetish about proving me wrong all the time.

God knows why.

You have been told off before about not qualifying your answers.

Im afraid i am the best.

Now that is a worrying attitude. I suggest you stop and take a look at yourself. You are not the best at getting your point across, or the best at referencing your answers or the best at explaining things.

 

[initforthemoney]

Trust me....you haven`t Good.Sorry - I disagree. Your right to.

So, are we saying that a domestic premises, with a sub-main to a seperate DB local to the kitchen, and another sub-main to a garage CU, is 3 installations? And if I do a PIR of, a commercial premises with 50+ DBs, I have that many installations??? Indeed, as that PIR, each DB will be ONE installation, therefore requiring separate reports for each.

OK.

Mr KME does, indeed have some fetishes.

However, they are not for discussion on this forum (minors can access). Agreed

Nevertheless, none of said fetishes, in any way, have any bearing on you. I am relieved.

Maybe it just seems that way to you, as you fail to back up things you say, and provide "half-hearted" (at best) argumentative posts, consistently.Not correct. When asked i have provided information

As I appear to be causing you some consternation, I shall attempt to refrain from posting my views on your comments from now on. :coat I would rather you didnt as this is what forums are for. However, your posts sometimes come across as argumentative as do mine. Although mine are not intended.

My red.