PIR on Static Caravan Site - PME and Bonding!

[davetheglitz]

I've been doing a PIR on some caravans on a static site. I've been getting some very low Zs readings on some caravans - and not others - so suspect TNCS in some parts - need to verify. However - as there is a communal gas supplies and gas is bonded this mean that the PME is effectively exported via the gas runs. Sounds nasty!

Has anyone come across this before?

How would you record this on a PIR for a caravan? As such this is a plug in - so the caravan itself is fine - it's just the services that it's connected to that need urgent attention!

 

[davetheglitz]

I've been doing a PIR on some caravans on a static site. I've been getting some very low Zs readings on some caravans - and not others - so suspect TNCS in some parts - need to verify. However - as there is a communal gas supplies and gas is bonded this mean that the PME is effectively exported via the gas runs. Sounds nasty!

Has anyone come across this before?

How would you record this on a PIR for a caravan? As such this is a plug in - so the caravan itself is fine - it's just the services that it's connected to that need urgent attention!

 

[ProDave]

Very interesting one.

Particularly as if I'm not mistaken, a caravan is supposed to be TT'd isn't it?

Most caravans have an individual gas bottle supply so your issue does not arise, but I can understand your concerns.

You could make the same argument for any house with PME that has metal incoming water pipes.

 

[ProDave]

Very interesting one.

Particularly as if I'm not mistaken, a caravan is supposed to be TT'd isn't it?

Most caravans have an individual gas bottle supply so your issue does not arise, but I can understand your concerns.

You could make the same argument for any house with PME that has metal incoming water pipes.

 

[kme]

No, I don`t think there`s much comparison; TBH; in this case it sounds like the PME earth is leaving the EZ - problematic, as DTG infers.

I`m not certain of the appropriate remedial works; but, because of that, it would have to be recorded as a 3 - you need to investgate further, if only to prove your exported PME earth theory.

 

[kme]

No, I don`t think there`s much comparison; TBH; in this case it sounds like the PME earth is leaving the EZ - problematic, as DTG infers.

I`m not certain of the appropriate remedial works; but, because of that, it would have to be recorded as a 3 - you need to investgate further, if only to prove your exported PME earth theory.

 

[spinlondon]

Static caravans can have PME.

 

[spinlondon]

Static caravans can have PME.

 

[davetheglitz]

Not according to the BRB - 708.411.4

In the UK the ESQCR prohibit the use of a TN-C-S system for the supply of a caravan or similar construction.

 

[davetheglitz]

Not according to the BRB - 708.411.4

In the UK the ESQCR prohibit the use of a TN-C-S system for the supply of a caravan or similar construction.

 

[ProDave]

Not according to the BRB - 708.411.4In the UK the ESQCR prohibit the use of a TN-C-S system for the supply of a caravan or similar construction.

As I thought.

so you need to ensure all 'vans are TT'd, then I guess the issue of being "bonded together" by the gas pipes is not an issue.

 

[ProDave]

Not according to the BRB - 708.411.4In the UK the ESQCR prohibit the use of a TN-C-S system for the supply of a caravan or similar construction.

As I thought.

so you need to ensure all 'vans are TT'd, then I guess the issue of being "bonded together" by the gas pipes is not an issue.

 

[Larnacaman]

If you have a PME supply that is supplying an installation that has a water and gas supply, and those services are appropriately bonded to that PME supply.... You are not exporting EZ but extending it.....

Not sure how this fares on a static caravan site though, having never had experience of them.....

 

[Larnacaman]

If you have a PME supply that is supplying an installation that has a water and gas supply, and those services are appropriately bonded to that PME supply.... You are not exporting EZ but extending it.....

Not sure how this fares on a static caravan site though, having never had experience of them.....

 

[ADS]

If you have a PME supply that is supplying an installation that has a water and gas supply, and those services are appropriately bonded to that PME supply.... You are not exporting EZ but extending it.....Not sure how this fares on a static caravan site though, having never had experience of them.....

If you have incomming gas/water to the caravan, then you 'bond' it to the TT earth that you have provided for that caravan - just like you would the metal frame of the caravan - you don't bond to the PME main intake earth.

The two systems have to be kept completely seperate.

It gives full details of this in GN8, which, if you are doing a PIR on a caravan site, you should read (as a minimum)

 

[ADS]

If you have a PME supply that is supplying an installation that has a water and gas supply, and those services are appropriately bonded to that PME supply.... You are not exporting EZ but extending it.....Not sure how this fares on a static caravan site though, having never had experience of them.....

If you have incomming gas/water to the caravan, then you 'bond' it to the TT earth that you have provided for that caravan - just like you would the metal frame of the caravan - you don't bond to the PME main intake earth.

The two systems have to be kept completely seperate.

It gives full details of this in GN8, which, if you are doing a PIR on a caravan site, you should read (as a minimum)

 

[Larnacaman]

ADS,

I don't think i said anything about caravans in my previous post concerning EZ, in fact i pointed out i have no experience of static caravan sites!!!!.. I only really know that caravans are normally fed from a plug and socket arrangement, not sure if that also goes for these big static caravans??

I was merely pointing out what many forget or are unaware of with regards to, the so-called exporting of an earthing system via a sub-main cable....

But that being said, your mentioning a TT system here now, and the OP has said nothing about these caravans being provided with a TT system. If you have experience of these static type caravan parks, then i'm sure your right in what you are saying.

What intrigues me is, that i would have thought that the local authorities, and the DNO company for this area would have been involved in the set-up of this site, .....So how come there are no TT Rods at each of these hard standings?? Come to that, are we sure here that the incoming supply is indeed PME?? ...It just maybe TN-S!! If this site is anything like the size of some of these Static sites, that also cater for tourist caravans and have Social blocks, shops and other amenities, it maybe being supplied from it's own Distribution Transformer. So many unanswered and therefore unknown numerable,s here !!! :C

 

[Larnacaman]

ADS,

I don't think i said anything about caravans in my previous post concerning EZ, in fact i pointed out i have no experience of static caravan sites!!!!.. I only really know that caravans are normally fed from a plug and socket arrangement, not sure if that also goes for these big static caravans??

I was merely pointing out what many forget or are unaware of with regards to, the so-called exporting of an earthing system via a sub-main cable....

But that being said, your mentioning a TT system here now, and the OP has said nothing about these caravans being provided with a TT system. If you have experience of these static type caravan parks, then i'm sure your right in what you are saying.

What intrigues me is, that i would have thought that the local authorities, and the DNO company for this area would have been involved in the set-up of this site, .....So how come there are no TT Rods at each of these hard standings?? Come to that, are we sure here that the incoming supply is indeed PME?? ...It just maybe TN-S!! If this site is anything like the size of some of these Static sites, that also cater for tourist caravans and have Social blocks, shops and other amenities, it maybe being supplied from it's own Distribution Transformer. So many unanswered and therefore unknown numerable,s here !!! :C

 

[Adrian]

wouldn't the gas and water be in plastic pipe

 

[ADS]

Sorry, Larnacaman

With the 'Opening Post' reading.........

I've been doing a PIR on some caravans on a static site. .......suspect TNCS in some parts - need to verify. However - as there is a communal gas supplies and gas is bonded this mean that the PME is effectively exported via the gas runs.

I mistakenly assumed you were staying on topic - and not commenting on installations in general. :|

My post was mainly aimed at the OP, though, and not personally at you.

I am by no means that experienced with caravan parks, though I do go out of my way to study the various installations and regulations that I may not be too familiar with.

As I mentioned, GN8 Pages 130 & 131 - PME for caravan parks - has some diagrams and text of how things should be done.

At the top of the page it starts off by saying:

Regulation 9(4) of ESQCR 2002 prohibits the connection of any metalwork in a caravan (or boat) to the combined protective and neutral conductor of the public electricity network.