Problem of the week - ceiling rose

[springcrocus]

I knew what the problem was before i got there by the request for more 5A fuse wireI think it was aimed at me not you Springcrocus.

As Springcrocus said it took him longer to type out the answer to the question than do the job so i'd say 10 mins is what time it prob took Springcrocus to do it.

But you had to change the fusewire first, so thats your ten minutes gone already. :^O

 

[Bacon]

But you had to change the fusewire first, so thats your ten minutes gone already. :^O

He'd changed the fuse wire while i was there so i sorted the cables out then put back in so i'd say 5 mins then:^O

 

[Manator]

Takes me more than 5 minutes to produce the certificate, and I use easycert! faster and neater then my handwriting, what are you trying to say? I am slow?

:slap

 

[philbas]

the real problem is to identify the swich wirea

then reconnest all

then write a cert

you cant do it in 10 mins

 

[Bacon]

the real problem is to identify the swich wirea (One Red ,One black)

then reconnest all (Three Red common)(One Black S/W and Brown to fitting)(Two Black neutral and Blue to fitting)

then write a cert (What for reconnecting into correct connections.)

you cant do it in 10 mins

:|

 

[philbas]

where i work it can take yo 10 mins to get past the goose

 

[SteveT]

Lights , oh lights!

Went to a house this Thursday which had been converted to flats in the 60's.

'we have had a fire safety inspection prior to sale of 1st floor flat. We have no lighting in three storey stair well so have a non conformity on fire check, oh by the way, this has not worked for at least six years and the last electrician just said "it cant be fixed, you will just have to make do!!"' (5WW!!??)

They had used a table lamp for all those years.

So...............................

we have lamp in lobby and lamp on middle landing

we have two pnuematic switches, one in lobby and .........on middle landing, these are connected in parrallel with 1.5T&E

lobby

in switch one 1.5 goes to lobby lamp, other to middle landing switch. In lobby rose three 1.5s, one from switch ...connected to Live + neutral of lamp (well that will work then! Other two 1.5s feed in and feed out are connected to each other with Hellerman push connectors.

Middle landing

switch, two 1.5s and a 3C+E (RYB) all blacks+blue coneected to LI, all reds(3) connected to Common.

(Are you following this!!)Yellow floating in the ether!

One T+E from switch, one to lobby switch, 3C+E cannot find the other ends at all!

By the way, all CPCs connected - no sleeving and no sleeving to designate live etc.

In rose three 1.5s, one is live feed, one to middle landing switch and the other????????

We disconnect everything in prep for belling out (above info discovered at this point)

We go to top flat and switch off CU, lobby rose loses power - yippee, we know where the source is!

Uh, middle landing feed still live.....go into 1st Floor flat............you know where this is going!

Turn off CU, rose loses power!! uh

Now we have two lights, trying to be operated by two switches, all linked,both with supplies from seperate CUs, good job we test before diving in!!!

Anyway the long and short of it was we seperated the two ccts as it was impossible to get two way switching operating the two lamps fed from one supply. tested all excess cables, terminated any not required in WAGOs, checked that we had not disconnected anything inadvertantly and got paid

 

[Mr T]

is it not safer and quicker to identify the switch live by doing a continuity test ?

that was in response to earlier poster who would go back to the CU to turn on power to find switch live

 

[binky]

OK, guys, this is how I would do it.............an it would have done to do the job. B-)

and how is this quicker than a simple safe continuity test for the switch line with my trusty volt probes??? I have done this sort of stuff as well, but don't see any real merit in it, it's not hard to identify 4 pairs of cables ergo only need 4/5 tests without walking to and from CU.

 

[springcrocus]

and how is this quicker than a simple safe continuity test for the switch line with my trusty volt probes??? I have done this sort of stuff as well, but don't see any real merit in it, it's not hard to identify 4 pairs of cables ergo only need 4/5 tests without walking to and from CU.

Sorry, Binky, are these not contradictory terms? A continuity test is a dead test, and a volt probe would be used in a live test. ?:|

However, it's probable that I have misunderstood your thoughts on the matter.

The object of the exercise was really to show the less experienced members that there is a quicker (and just as safe, if care is taken) method than that which is taught in the classroom.

 

[Mr T]

Im sure you are aware that a voltage indicator can be used to check for continuity as well as being used to test for voltage and for no voltage ...

Still I cant see how working on a live circuit can ever be just as safe as working on a dead circuit

 

[steptoe]

Im sure you are aware that a voltage indicator can be used to check for continuity as well as being used to test for voltage and for no voltage ...Still I cant see how working on a live circuit can ever be just as safe as working on a dead circuit

no it cant, I think you will find the clue is in the name,

now, a multifunction tester, well, thats a different beast altogether.

 

[sb_89]

+1 why on earth would you work on a live circuit when a simple continuity test would give the exact same result - switch on continuity , switch off no continuity , and it could be done in 3 - 4 tests with simple test equipment. And im sure it would be just as quick if not quicker. Also EAW regs

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/635/regulation/14/made

You shouldn't be suggesting your method to students at all .

I just noticed all the disclaimers you posted about this, still the afore mentioned method is still better lol

 

[binky]

Sorry, Binky, are these not contradictory terms? A continuity test is a dead test, and a volt probe would be used in a live test. ?:| However, it's probable that I have misunderstood your thoughts on the matter.

The object of the exercise was really to show the less experienced members that there is a quicker (and just as safe, if care is taken) method than that which is taught in the classroom.

My volt probes also perform simple continuity check, very useful for 'belling out' simple things like switch lines.

If care has to be taken, then it's not as safe, not that I don't do stuff like this myself cos sometimes live testing is quicker and easier than dead testing, eg using 'socket and see' for finding breaks in ring circuits or even tracing circuits by dropping out the earth for that circuit so that it shows as an earth fault. I just don't see this method as being particularly quicker, unless someone has cut outer sheath back too far ie outside ceiling rose, and identifying conductor pairs is therefore difficult. Anyway not worth getting into argument over ..

 

[steptoe]

My volt probes also perform simple continuity check, very useful for 'belling out' simple things like switch lines.If care has to be taken, then it's not as safe, not that I don't do stuff like this myself cos sometimes live testing is quicker and easier than dead testing, eg using 'socket and see' for finding breaks in ring circuits or even tracing circuits by dropping out the earth for that circuit so that it shows as an earth fault. I just don't see this method as being particularly quicker, unless someone has cut outer sheath back too far ie outside ceiling rose, and identifying conductor pairs is therefore difficult. Anyway not worth getting into argument over ..

well then they are NOT simply volt probes are they,?

they are multifunction testers.

 

[sellers]

walk in door, say hi to customer wheres your board. switch of mcb, customer shows you to room, switch off light switch, check for no continuity ask customer to switch switch on, play a tune with it. then ask for a cold drink as you'll be done in 2 mins.

Job done, theres no walking forward and back ward, no live testing. no fuss. Sorry spring I was looking forward to learning of a new quicker way but I'm dissapointed. Your method is basically a continuity test using 0v and 230v as your range of open or closed.

 

[steptoe]

ok, the real quick and easy way,,

walk in room, pull over customers chesterfield to stand on, stick all the reds together in the loop, turn board on and whip out your neon, check switched live,

put it into sw terminal, put the other blacks in N terminal, lift out other reds until 2nd light goes off(remember, you already know the feed), put 2nd light feed doubled up with sw live,

*&%$

 

[steptoe]

nah, Ive got one from the back of an old cooker switch taped onto the end of a lollipop stick.

 

[kerching]

ok, the real quick and easy way,,walk in room, pull over customers chesterfield to stand on, stick all the reds together in the loop, turn board on and whip out your neon, check switched live,

put it into sw terminal, put the other blacks in N terminal, lift out other reds until 2nd light goes off(remember, you already know the feed), put 2nd light feed doubled up with sw live,

*&%$

 

[steptoe]

did you miss word 6 line 2 ? :|