Problem of the week

[Guy]

that was a scarily fast response (check over shoulder), ty

 

[steptoe]

lol, Id just looked in to see what was new,

 

[Guy]

1. Confirm customer is correct

2. Try all switch combinations

3. Turn on all relevent lights

4. At CU isolate lighting circuit 1, inspect which relevent lights have gone off

5. Turn circuit 1 back on, isolate circuit 2 and inspect which relevent lights gone off

Steps can you please tell me wether hall light was isolated with landing and loft light as I would expect it to be on DS circuit but in this case maybe not.

 

[steptoe]

2 gang switch in hall for hall light and landing light picks up the live here,

2 way/inter switches wired in (to you guys) old T&E method and singles,

do you know how to wire 2way lights using this method? there is NO 3core used for the lights, the only 3core is the between the smoke alarms,

these have been wired recently using harmonised colours, the loft light uses old colours, switches where relevant have been done in twin red, 2 ways are single red and earth.

 

[Evans Electric]

Has someone picked up a feed for loft light from the newly installed smoke alarms ?

 

[Maplasterelec]

What about neutral from the smoke and live from the lights. So when lights off its getting a small amount of current through the neutral on the smoke?

 

[Guy]

In reponse to your question steps,I am afraid I dont, something else to learn:O

I like your idea Maplastelec, but the bit I am really struggling with is, Hall light ON, Landing Light ON, Loft full brightness.I can't see how your idea explains the influence of the hall light, but that is the whole idea of this

 

[steptoe]

There is an issue with the smoke detectors

 

[Evans Electric]

Ah !

 

[Maplasterelec]

I'm a bit stumped! I'd like to get in that loft and trace that damn wiring to its source!!

 

[steptoe]

smoke detector in hall, smoke detector on landing, the smoke detectors dont work (properly) if anyone is going to ask. but they are 'interlinked',

there are 2x 3C&E at both detectors !

there is a 3c&e at the hall light, there is a JB between the US detector and the landing light, there is NO 3C&E at the landing light, there is a T&E and a single N and a single Sw L

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

There is an issue with the smoke detectors

Theres and issue with the bl00dy lights as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:slap :slap

 

[Manator]

Problem solving always follows a logical path, experience like in the case of steptoe allows some to dismiss some tests because the fault has been witnessed before and provides a starting point. If this problem has never been seen before then you must follow logic, the first thing you should do is what steptoe suggested, and that is after speaking to the client, see the problem for yourself. The next thing you should do is ask the client if they have had any recent works carried out, after this I am not going to give any more pointers because it is steptoe's thread, but try to think logical and step by step.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

One other thought.... {May or may not be relevant to this problem}

When listening to customers descriptions... especially with two or three way switching...

When a customer says 'Landing Switch ON'

You need to confirm if they mean a lamp has illuminated OR just a physical switch position..

e.g.

some people call a switch in the down position as 'ON' and the up position as 'OFF'

But a lamp may be illuminated in either state with two way switching...

example two switches 'A' & 'B' four possible states could be....

Switch 'A' OFF & Switch 'B' OFF Lamp OFF

Switch 'A' OFF & Switch 'B' ON Lamp ON

Switch 'A' ON & Switch 'B' OFF Lamp ON

Switch 'A' ON & Switch 'B' ON Lamp OFF

Three way has a few more states to consider...

Not sure if Steptoe is describing Switch positions or lamp conditions...

Or if he want to divulge that information at this stage...

But it may get others thinking outside the box a bit?

Guinness

p.s.

I may be just Intoximicated in my ramblings as usual...

:Blushing

 

[Maplasterelec]

Right last try before bed! The smokes are getting a switched live neutral and common instead of a permanent live. The loft light is getting its live from the smokes, which is a switched live so only works properly when the relative light is on. ( can't remember which it is )

Matt

 

[Maplasterelec]

I'll check in the morning. Night all

Matt

 

[steptoe]

^^ all 3 above,

think what you do when confronted about a problem/fault,

you ask questions, maybe not out loud, but you ask them to yourself, then you LOOK at something to get the answer, only in this case you need to ask me to be told what you find when you remove the cover,

thats why I decided to post up the wiring of the smokes, Matt, I think it was you that was on the right track, kinda.

Manator, and the rest of the 'experienced' folks, feel free to prod in the direction 'you' would go, Im not going to answer any of you guys personally, but maybe it will get the app/learners/newbies thinking more out of the box,

remember folks, we cant restrain DIYers twisted logic of getting something to work, no matter how much they mess something else up they will get their bit to work eventually.

this was actually a really weird fault, and a combination of a few things, not least a diyer simply trying to put a T&E to a 'bulb', it obviously didnt work with the first wire they tried so they kept swapping stuff around til it did, more then one connection is wrong. !

 

[NozSpark]

Ah,,m not what I was thinking then

 

[Manator]

Steps this is your baby,and whilst we may have experience it is always good to brainstorm from time to time if only to keep our hands in. I follow all such threads simply because a test method I use could be improved or expressed upon by others, it is very easy to get set in your ways and assume you do everything right, working alone is always going to be individualistic and none constructive, unless you are willing to except your limitations. Which is why I always follow such threads because I learn as much as everyone else.

 

[steptoe]

well, Ive just had to rethink how I tested this and reconfigure it into an acceptable method. :|