I've had this exact problem at least twice now and it's always been the same thing
Problem of the week
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Initial thoughs..
Any lamp glowing dimly sounds like something is series connected not parallel...
If one lamp is series connected..
there must by definition be at least one other lamp somewhere also glowing dimly...
Firstly I would establish exactly which lights light up with all switch combinations..
and if they are at full brightness..
:|ray
Any lamp glowing dimly sounds like something is series connected not parallel...
If one lamp is series connected..
there must by definition be at least one other lamp somewhere also glowing dimly...
Firstly I would establish exactly which lights light up with all switch combinations..
and if they are at full brightness..
:|
ray 
right you last three,
I think that you shouldnt be trying to solve this,
maybe trying to hint at how you would do things,
Deke, there is NO lead sheath cable in this house, I dunno if you have seen the new PVC stuff yet!
alpha, loft light is harmonised colours, now what are the issues with that as regards the original install?
---------- Post Auto-Merged at 23:25 ---------- Previous post was made at 23:24 ----------
we dont want the answer, we want the reasoning.
I think that you shouldnt be trying to solve this,
maybe trying to hint at how you would do things,
Deke, there is NO lead sheath cable in this house, I dunno if you have seen the new PVC stuff yet!
alpha, loft light is harmonised colours, now what are the issues with that as regards the original install?
---------- Post Auto-Merged at 23:25 ---------- Previous post was made at 23:24 ----------
slow down,Initial thoughs..Firstly I would establish exactly which lights light up with all switch combinations..
and if they are at full brightness..
:|
we dont want the answer, we want the reasoning.
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Sorry dad!right you last three,I think that you shouldnt be trying to solve this,
maybe trying to hint at how you would do things,
Deke, there is NO lead sheath cable in this house, I dunno if you have seen the new PVC stuff yet!
alpha, loft light is harmonised colours, now what are the issues with that as regards the original install?
---------- Post Auto-Merged at 23:25 ---------- Previous post was made at 23:24 ----------
slow down,
we dont want the answer, we want the reasoning.
:Blushing :innocent O) Guinness
#42 almost gives it to you,
almost.
but tell me how.
almost.
but tell me how.
What is the significence of the smoke detectors ?
Or has someone forgot to solder the lead sheaths together with the blowlamp,sticks of solder and ,being lead, the tallow as a flux, I see it all now , the neutral from the loft is going down the lead sheath to that untracable Imm.Htr circuit and is in series with the unused element, hence no other lamp dimmed, from there down an unconnected bit of copper pipe which is touching an old steel conduit switch drop which has a screw through it , connecting it to the interlink wire of the Smoke detector circuit, through the electronics , down the neutral , which is connected to the switch wire of the hall light which has a green /yellow as a return down a copper sink waste pipe which only makes a connection when water runs through it.
My case rests.
Or has someone forgot to solder the lead sheaths together with the blowlamp,sticks of solder and ,being lead, the tallow as a flux, I see it all now , the neutral from the loft is going down the lead sheath to that untracable Imm.Htr circuit and is in series with the unused element, hence no other lamp dimmed, from there down an unconnected bit of copper pipe which is touching an old steel conduit switch drop which has a screw through it , connecting it to the interlink wire of the Smoke detector circuit, through the electronics , down the neutral , which is connected to the switch wire of the hall light which has a green /yellow as a return down a copper sink waste pipe which only makes a connection when water runs through it.
My case rests.
sparky b
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A hole in one there Deke, absolute Genius!!!!!!!:worship :SaluteWhat is the significence of the smoke detectors ? Or has someone forgot to solder the lead sheaths together with the blowlamp,sticks of solder and ,being lead, the tallow as a flux, I see it all now , the neutral from the loft is going down the lead sheath to that untracable Imm.Htr circuit and is in series with the unused element, hence no other lamp dimmed, from there down an unconnected bit of copper pipe which is touching an old steel conduit switch drop which has a screw through it , connecting it to the interlink wire of the Smoke detector circuit, through the electronics , down the neutral , which is connected to the switch wire of the hall light which has a green /yellow as a return down a copper sink waste pipe which only makes a connection when water runs through it.
My case rests.
Elementary my dear Watson , I also deduct that the original sparks was from Eastern Europe, a swarthy man with one leg shorter than the other ,a glass eye and a propensity to pick his nose , break wind frequently and smoked Woodbines . Probably not very popular.
---------- Post Auto-Merged at 00:21 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:20 ----------
---------- Post Auto-Merged at 00:21 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:20 ----------
and you have never even met me!!!!!!Elementary my dear Watson , I also deduct that the original sparks was from Eastern Europe, a swarthy man with one leg shorter than the other ,a glass eye and a propensity to pick his nose , break wind frequently and smoked Woodbines . Probably not very popular.---------- Post Auto-Merged at 00:21 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:20 ----------
I changed it from Mad Ulsterman but he still recognised himself !!
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Well the answer to Life The Universe and Everything is #42..
so thats how!
]
Maplasterelec
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Ok. I've slept now read the latest replies and still coming up with..................confused now!
Hi, all!!!
Right, let a newbie have a go!! No experience of this sort of thing, but i will have a bash!!
First off, the loft light cannot be connected in series with another load, as then, there would be TWO things not working properly, not just the one dim bulb. [ the sum of the volt drops around a circuit add up to the supply voltage type of thing, so two equal sized bulbs in series would split the voltage equally between them if you follow me]
Anyway, i digress!!
Sooooooo, the light comes on dimly..... We have already established that it cannot be in series with anything, or at least we should have, by checking everything else works ok, [full brightness or whatever] but further, it cannot be in parallel either, or it would receive the full mains voltage and come on brightly...
So, what is actually happening???
I would say that BOTH the wires feeding the bulb, are, BOTH somehow, either connected to a neutral, or a line somewhere, [and from separate circuits too] Instead of, between a neutral and a line]
So, I think the bulb is lighting dimly as a result of it measuring in a "bulby" sort of way! the PD between the two neutrals or lines it is connected to, that occur as a result of volt drops along the conductors caused by loads applied to different parts of the installation.
Now, it is all very well theorising as to what is happening, but there are i suppose, LOADS of permutations, and you could think about it all day, so what would i ACTUALLY do??
I will assume for the purpose of the exercise that the wiring for the light is boxed in so we cannot simply follow it!!
Being wired by a numpty, they will have connected it to whatever is nearest, so, being in a loft, i would take the front off all light switches and all ceiling roses and see if there were any wires that should not be there. The same applies to any other items in the loft, i would have a look at them and look for "extra" wires.
If i did not spot anything, then i would turn the power back on, put the switches in such a position that the bulb came on dimly, and then re-isolate the ENTIRE installation again, cos i am not getting a shock for anyone, remember numpty wiring is present here, just switching off the upstairs light MCB's would not be safe especially as there is the redundant immersion heater wiring, which, i would DEFINITELY be disconnecting at the CU anyway, even if purely to see what effect it had..
At the CU i would switch ALL the MCB's off [to separate them from each other] Then i would connect my long test lead to one of the connectors in the bulb holder and check continuity to all the MCB's in turn. I would expect [hope and pray!!] to find that there was continuity to TWO of them.
I would then do the same with the other bulb terminal and be drawing a little diagram as i went. If i found nothing amiss, i would pull out all the neutrals, and try the same thing again.
Remembering that the bulb cannot be in series OR parallel with anything, [or at least not in series with anything that worked properly, somewhere along the line, the bulb must be somehow connected to TWO lines, or TWO neutrals.
Having found which particular circuits lines or neutrals were connected to the bulb, i would take the front of THEIR accessories and look for spare wires.. If there were no spare wires, then they have obviously put in some "hidden" JB's somewhere..... All you could do then would be to split circuits down and check for continuity with your long test lead from the bulb holder to the ends of the disconnected cables..........
Failing that i would call a proper electrician!!!! [where does that Steps live!!]
Tin helmet on!!!! Ping!!!!
john.....
Right, let a newbie have a go!! No experience of this sort of thing, but i will have a bash!!
First off, the loft light cannot be connected in series with another load, as then, there would be TWO things not working properly, not just the one dim bulb. [ the sum of the volt drops around a circuit add up to the supply voltage type of thing, so two equal sized bulbs in series would split the voltage equally between them if you follow me]
Anyway, i digress!!
Sooooooo, the light comes on dimly..... We have already established that it cannot be in series with anything, or at least we should have, by checking everything else works ok, [full brightness or whatever] but further, it cannot be in parallel either, or it would receive the full mains voltage and come on brightly...
So, what is actually happening???
I would say that BOTH the wires feeding the bulb, are, BOTH somehow, either connected to a neutral, or a line somewhere, [and from separate circuits too] Instead of, between a neutral and a line]
So, I think the bulb is lighting dimly as a result of it measuring in a "bulby" sort of way! the PD between the two neutrals or lines it is connected to, that occur as a result of volt drops along the conductors caused by loads applied to different parts of the installation.
Now, it is all very well theorising as to what is happening, but there are i suppose, LOADS of permutations, and you could think about it all day, so what would i ACTUALLY do??
I will assume for the purpose of the exercise that the wiring for the light is boxed in so we cannot simply follow it!!
Being wired by a numpty, they will have connected it to whatever is nearest, so, being in a loft, i would take the front off all light switches and all ceiling roses and see if there were any wires that should not be there. The same applies to any other items in the loft, i would have a look at them and look for "extra" wires.
If i did not spot anything, then i would turn the power back on, put the switches in such a position that the bulb came on dimly, and then re-isolate the ENTIRE installation again, cos i am not getting a shock for anyone, remember numpty wiring is present here, just switching off the upstairs light MCB's would not be safe especially as there is the redundant immersion heater wiring, which, i would DEFINITELY be disconnecting at the CU anyway, even if purely to see what effect it had..
At the CU i would switch ALL the MCB's off [to separate them from each other] Then i would connect my long test lead to one of the connectors in the bulb holder and check continuity to all the MCB's in turn. I would expect [hope and pray!!] to find that there was continuity to TWO of them.
I would then do the same with the other bulb terminal and be drawing a little diagram as i went. If i found nothing amiss, i would pull out all the neutrals, and try the same thing again.
Remembering that the bulb cannot be in series OR parallel with anything, [or at least not in series with anything that worked properly, somewhere along the line, the bulb must be somehow connected to TWO lines, or TWO neutrals.
Having found which particular circuits lines or neutrals were connected to the bulb, i would take the front of THEIR accessories and look for spare wires.. If there were no spare wires, then they have obviously put in some "hidden" JB's somewhere..... All you could do then would be to split circuits down and check for continuity with your long test lead from the bulb holder to the ends of the disconnected cables..........
Failing that i would call a proper electrician!!!! [where does that Steps live!!]
Tin helmet on!!!! Ping!!!!
john.....
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a1
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We'll have to keep these in the "Student & Learning Zone" forum.
One issue per thread - no tagging onto another thread. Titles to be described well with keywords applicable to the problem/issue.
If it is a success, I will add a sub-forum to the "student & learning zone" and will keep them all neatly in place. I will also add those already done by kme and canoeboy too.
How's that?
One issue per thread - no tagging onto another thread. Titles to be described well with keywords applicable to the problem/issue.
If it is a success, I will add a sub-forum to the "student & learning zone" and will keep them all neatly in place. I will also add those already done by kme and canoeboy too.
How's that?
gavindrummond
Senior Member
Sounds good to me admin
landing light switched from bottom of stairs, top of stairs and end of landing.
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