Proven WT6000 Wind Turbine and FIT + Deemed Export Queries

[Swift Solutions Scotland]

Hi everyone, a friend down the road from me has inherited a Proven WT6000 turbine with his property and a Windyboy inverter. It is set to grid export. (I have added that detail as looking through various technical manuals for these turbines it seems some configs of these turbines were set to charge batteries or be used to heat the property)

It seems to be working OK to some extent and he has had around 3565 KWH over the last 446 days (so around 8kwh a day average on the Generation meter) the location is coastal and it's on a circa 6m pole.

He has had a company come out and quote over £7k for a refurb, money he does not have to spare right now. I have offered to help him work out if the turbine is working correctly and see if we can work out whether any repairs or maintenance would be worth doing. I have only just got my own solar installation commissioned a few weeks ago so all the older FIT stuff is also new to me.

I have a good selection of power analysers and scopes from my work as a UPS Engineer and I thoroughly enjoy this type of investigation. I am doing this FOC as a favour, also to test out the logging functions of some new test equipment and to improve my understanding of these technologies.

Queries for the Forum:

FIT. Am I right in thinking:

1. He gets paid the FIT rate (£0.4409 a unit!) for everything he generates?

2. He is on a 50% deemed export according to the paperwork. So he also gets (£0.0482 a unit) for 50% of all the generated energy? (On top of the FIT rate)

3. IF he uses ALL the energy he generates, he is also reducing his usage from the grid. So saving paying (£0.28p or whatever) a unit as well?

This seems like he gets paid 3 x times for everything he generates? Is this correct or am I missing something?

Turbines

Does anyone have any working experience with these turbines? We plan on doing some measurements on a windy day with a Picoscope 4444 and a Fluke power analyser to compare the turbine datasheets power output curve with actual wind speed/generation onsite to see how efficiently it's working.

Does anyone know or recommend anywhere for spares for the unit?

Thanks!

 

[Geoff1946]

The FIT arrangements you describe sound like those applying to my solar panel installation which was installed 2014.
I hadn't really thought of it as being paid three times but is a good deal, having paid for itself in around eight years and now a bonus.
My set up cost about £4.5k in 2014. I've no idea of wind turbine costs but £7k to overhaul a working system sounds steep. Perhaps it's a "don't really want that job", quote?

 

[binky]

Your fit regime is exactly how it works for solar, so I would guess it's the same for wind.

Outputs from wind turbines are 3 phase, and can be used to charge batteries or grid connected via a grid tied inverter.

To check it's function you really need a way of measuring wind speed, ie a anemometer, then compare output against the data sheet. Biggest issue is usually the bearings wearing out. I suspect they aren't that hard to change for anyone with basic car maintenance skills, NB I've never tried

what makes you think it's not working properly?

 

[roys]

From memory did these Provens not have the folding blades, so that when the wind got too strong they simply folded in to protect against overspeed as opposed to furling, if I am correct then one of the weak points was the springs breaking that held the blades in the correct position.
Also from memory I think you needed a Tirfor for lowering them, if you need a loan of a Tirfor I am near Stranraer on a fairly regular basis so you are welcome to borrow mine.
I remember researching the Proven turbines about 12 / 15 years ago as I was considering one.

 

[Swift Solutions Scotland]

The FIT arrangements you describe sound like those applying to my solar panel installation which was installed 2014.
I hadn't really thought of it as being paid three times but is a good deal, having paid for itself in around eight years and now a bonus.
My set up cost about £4.5k in 2014. I've no idea of wind turbine costs but £7k to overhaul a working system sounds steep. Perhaps it's a "don't really want that job", quote?

Thanks for the confirmation Geoff1946. I'll let him know how the FIT scheme works. It was all new to me.

From memory did these Provens not have the folding blades, so that when the wind got too strong they simply folded in to protect against overspeed as opposed to furling, if I am correct then one of the weak points was the springs breaking that held the blades in the correct position.
Also from memory I think you needed a Tirfor for lowering them, if you need a loan of a Tirfor I am near Stranraer on a fairly regular basis so you are welcome to borrow mine.
I remember researching the Proven turbines about 12 / 15 years ago as I was considering one.

Thanks for the offer roys, I found some blogs and such today describing the spring wear and tear, thankfully these do seem quite popular so a few folks have blogged about DIY servicing on them. The inlaws live over that way, I'm based closer to Castle Douglas.

Your fit regime is exactly how it works for solar, so I would guess it's the same for wind.

Outputs from wind turbines are 3 phase, and can be used to charge batteries or grid connected via a grid tied inverter.

To check it's function you really need a way of measuring wind speed, ie a anemometer, then compare output against the data sheet. Biggest issue is usually the bearings wearing out. I suspect they aren't that hard to change for anyone with basic car maintenance skills, NB I've never tried

what makes you think it's not working properly?

binky - Thanks for the response. I've been reading up on using my Picoscope, a anemometer, and measuring the voltage/frequency and current output to compare against the datasheet. If we go down this route, I will document it and pop on here for other folks reference.

The reason he thinks it is not working properly is the overall output over the last 12months or so, it's claimed the turbine properly sited should generate from 6000 - 12000kwh. (yes this may be optimistic or based on living on Orkney...) But at the moment it's averaging 8kwh a day which seems a bit low. The location is coastal and the overall installation looks to have been well thought out.

The other issue is the turbine has had one of the springs removed by someone doing 'a service' some years ago I think before he bought the property. So if I am understanding the design correctly, with less tension on the blades it will self regulate at a lower RPM. So IF it should spin at 20hz max when perfect, if it's now only hitting 12-15hz then we're going to be losing a lot of potential output right there as the self protect design kicks in too early.

My Fluke 435 is currently doing a record of the inverter output to see how much we get over the next few days. Depending on this I'll pop down and do the more intrusive and detailed testing.

Any more info on this is appreciated. This is a learning curve for me.

 

[binky]

Not had alot to do with wind turbines, but 8kwh a day sounds low, especially given recent weather. Do let us know how you get on. Inverter is SMA, German, so should be sound.

 

[offgridAndy]

Hi, I'm not an electrician although I did serve time as a unit operator on the power station (CEGB) in the 1970's.
But I have lived "off grid" for over 20 years and have designed and installed our entire household power system which includes 6.5 Kw of solar PV, 25 Kwh of lead acid battery, 3.5Kw wind turbine and gen set. I expect that I've done it all wrong. So don't shout at me.

I can't comment on Feed in Tariff as I don't take any subsidy from the government. I pay my own way.

Re wind turbine. Proven WT are excellent but like all maqchines do need maintanance. Annually this is a visual inspection of moving parts plus grease bearings. Springs do get slack and there are nylon roller bearings as part of the linkage on the blades. As noted the blades are hinged to conne inwards under wind in excess of 25Mph, if the springs are worn or the rollers are worn then the furling will be effected.

Lowering a 6 mtr tower with a Tirfor winch is a doddle. Use a snatch block to reduce work. There will be a wich point a few meters from the base of the tower and you will need the gin pole which is hinged (connected) at the tower base. My tower is 12 Mtr and still easy peasy.

Proven 6Kw units built around yr 2000/2005 did suffer a design flaw which bankrupted the Co who were brought out by Kingspan. Company has since become independant again and is now known as SDS tel 01560 486 570 https://sd-windenergy.com/. There is also an Irish company who know this kit inside out. VOLTSYS https://www.voltsys.com/. My contact there is Quinten. He knows the lot.

The windy boy is a ac/dc convertor to feed stable power to the actual grid tie inverter. It should have dump loads wired to use power if the inverter fails. The inverter most likely is Aurora and they do store data on various fields. I use a com package to extract data for day to day inspection. Coms software was available as a down load from Voltsys. https://www.voltsys.com/software/

Where is the OP based. I do have contact with a couple of long term off grid users of this kit in Scotland.

 

[Swift Solutions Scotland]

Hi offgridAndy, thanks for the detailed response, this is great! I'm based near Castle Douglas in Dumfries and Galloway, the turbine is 15mins down the road from me.

Interesting to know that lowering it isn't too much to worry about, as it's not my turbine I was quite reluctant to offer to help with this.

I am hoping to pop back later this week to collect the Fluke data so I will see if the inverter has any comms ports fitted and see if I can connect up if it does.

Locked to prevent being resurrected (again)