Reccomend me a CU please

[Blue Duck]

Bah, just grind the fingers off the bus bar!

:coffee

 

[Tony S]

Whilst it's a good idea, I'm always concerned that the leaving of space between heavy loaded mcbs is tempting fate in itself? If an additional circuit was to be added then the likely hood is that it will be a radial to a relatively high load, such as hot tub, garage/workshop? Which would then substabtially increase the problem you are eliminating?   

Just thinking out loud................

The earth and moon may collide next year.

You can only plan for known situations, what the next electrician does is his problem not Dave’s. So long as Dave leaves the job in a safe and serviceable condition then at that point his responsibility ends (subject to terms and conditions.)

 

[ProDave]

The earth and moon may collide next year.

You can only plan for known situations, what the next electrician does is his problem not Dave’s. So long as Dave leaves the job in a safe and serviceable condition then at that point his responsibility ends (subject to terms and conditions.)

I suspect most people would just slap in a mk/wylex/crabtree/bg etc CU without a second thought in a job like this, and then be puzzled in 6 months time when they get called back because something has gone wrong.

I am just trying to understand the challenges of this unusual installation with it's several high powered loads, and install a solution that I have a degree of confidence I won't get called back to fix because it won't go wrong.  And a BIG part of that is disappointment with the run of the mill stuff that is available to us, and a BIG disappointment that when the IET realised there were problems with CU's, they didn't attempt to address those problems and stop CU's going wrong, they just stuck them in a tin box so that when they go wrong they might not burn the house down.

The solution that SBS Dave has proposed looks far more robust than the standard offerings and is one I am confident will be reliable.
 

 

[Sharpend]

The earth and moon may collide next year.

You can only plan for known situations, what the next electrician does is his problem not Dave’s. So long as Dave leaves the job in a safe and serviceable condition then at that point his responsibility ends (subject to terms and conditions.)

I don't disagree with you Tony, it's just a sad fact that so many 'electricians' don't understand the principles of design and inevitably will do something that will be detrimental to the installation and ultimately cost the customer more money for nothing.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Bah, just grind the fingers off the bus bar!

:coffee

Do what the Duck said.......

(which I was about to say anyway...)

Modify the bus bar so that it is not possible to just slot another MCB in a breathing space without replacing the busbar itself......

(or get SBS Dave to supply aa Custom "double gap" busbar)!

Guinness

 

[steptoe]

Ye, its not as if I've been to look at a job where the spark couldn't get a new circuit to work where it was a wylex breaker in a sqD  plug in busbar ,???? :C

You can't account for stupidity

Grind the fingers off 

 

[kerching]

Ye, its not as if I've been to look at a job where the spark couldn't get a new circuit to work where it was a wylex breaker in a sqD  plug in busbar ,???? :C

You can't account for stupidity

Grind the fingers off 

We do seem to be breeding a different class of ***** nowadays.  bad day explode

if this is the future of the industry then I worry for the next generation

 

[Tony S]

I don't disagree with you Tony, it's just a sad fact that so many 'electricians' don't understand the principles of design and inevitably will do something that will be detrimental to the installation and ultimately cost the customer more money for nothing.

That is a true and sad fact. You put the time and effort in to a safe and practical design only to have some numpty come along and **** it all up.

I do like the idea of nipping the busbar tags off to stop the clearance ways being used in the future, would that affect the warranty? Only SBS Dave can answer that question.

 

[Evans Electric]

The earth and moon may collide next year.

You can only plan for known situations, what the next electrician does is his problem not Dave’s. So long as Dave leaves the job in a safe and serviceable condition then at that point his responsibility ends (subject to terms and conditions.)

I have to say that is one of my hobby horses .   I've done a few threads on the subject .   I have always found many electricians who start to plan for unforseen , unknown , possible future actions that may or may not be taken by  other sparks who may or may not be called to the same job at some , possible , date in the distant future.   Or not , as the case may be.

I would fully agree with someone who works in ongoing employment at , say,  a factory and was in a position to plan for the known future.

I've heard all sorts , such as a sparks at the wholesalers I passed a job to, running a 16mm SWA  a few meters to a domestic garage ...." In case they might want to use a welder "

There was no mention of welding ....bloke wanted  a plug for a battery charger and a light .   Total load  about 3A .     

 

[apprentice87]

Yesssss, but equally, i have spoken to more than a few householders that were very disappointed when their new welder/compressor/whatever could not be used in their garage.. To them, you have either got an electric supply or you have not. If anyone asked my advice about electrics in garages i would ALWAYS explain the options, and tell them that if they DO go for a teeny weeny supply, that they will not be using such stuff in future.

A much bigger laugh is "electricians" that do not appear to know anything about volt drop.. Have seen loads of cables sized on the basis of current, and then they wonder why their motor will not start!! [and i cannot see the appropriate OCPD operating correctly either]

john..

 

[kerching]

Back in the day when 12V lights first appeared I priced at job at local Club. In those a days there was ONE BFO transformer and all lights were daisy chained from it.

I was too,expensive ( according to the resident clever-**** member).... So he wired them in bell wire as it was "only 12V"

probably about 20 X 50W lamps

whoops.   bad day explode

 

[Evans Electric]

Yesssss, but equally, i have spoken to more than a few householders that were very disappointed when their new welder/compressor/whatever could not be used in their garage.. To them, you have either got an electric supply or you have not. If anyone asked my advice about electrics in garages i would ALWAYS explain the options, and tell them that if they DO go for a teeny weeny supply, that they will not be using such stuff in future.

A much bigger laugh is "electricians" that do not appear to know anything about volt drop.. Have seen loads of cables sized on the basis of current, and then they wonder why their motor will not start!! [and i cannot see the appropriate OCPD operating correctly either]

john..

I take your point  Apprenti  but I'd already spoken to the customer , couldn't do it for weeks so passed it on .   This guy just decided it was going to be a working garage .   

The job was a light & a plug , I'd already priced him for a socket  plus a switched spur  as a light switch , that was the job. 

The same sparks was wiring a light in a toilet , accessed from a garden , he was fitting an RCD .  When I asked him why  he said it was " All the water in there"  

To me its just gilding the lily ,  it was a tiny bog with a loo , a batten holder & a switch . 

 

[ProDave]

I wired a shed once. It was set up as a home pub, with a bar, some stools, and a big tv. Nothing unusual there.

I had to go back to the same house some time later and there in the shed was an inflatable hot tub (on offer at Tesco) right next to a 13A socket.  What are you supposed to do, put your "electric police hat" on and remove any sockets within 3 metres of the hot tub?
 

 

[Evans Electric]

No Dave , as you know , the property owner is responsible for the electrics.    Not us .  

I went to quote a rewire some years ago ,  the old guy had , right next to the bath ,  a socket with a small table , a kettle ,a radio .  All to be used while he was in the bath .   He made tea while in the bath.  Oh and wired in Fig. 8 bell wire  from the landing plug .  

I was told it was fine as he'd wired it himself years ago and nothing had happened. 

 

[SBS Dave]

No problem with cutting off the busbar pins and it certainly wouldn't affect any warranties.

With regard to heat dissipation for the big load RCBOs, I think ProDave's idea is a good one and I could label the blanks as shown.

I would also use metal blanks, since there is increased risk of fire at that point.

 

[Andy™]

i think that label looks bad. maybe put that inside where its not visible until the cover is removed?

 

[kerching]

Personally I would not use the word DANGER....Jo Public does not like Danger. I think 'High Load Heatsink, do not remove' or something similar may be better

 

[SBS Dave]

Hi Andy,

That's the whole point of a danger label: if it looks bad, then people will look at it, including the next electrician.

If the customer wants a few extra circuits at some later time and an electrician does a visual survey (without taking the lid off) and with the labels inside, he would quote the job on the basis of adequate space. When he comes to do the job and takes the lid off, he either has to re-quote or ignore the overheat potential problem.

SBS Dave

 

[Rob_the_rich]

surely no need to leave a space between the main switch and the first mcb/rcbo since the main switch is not an mcb and should not care whether it gets hot? Space between 1st and 2nd mcb/rcbo should be enough to dissipate any heat.

Edit; main switch label below says do not exceed switch rating of 100A, switch is 125A

 

[SBS Dave]

I'm a Marketing Man, I satisfy the customer's needs.

Dave said a space next to the Main Switch, so that's what I showed.

Others suggested labels, so that's what I did. The photos were to illustrate the labelled metal blank Only, not the final configuration.

If Dave wants the label to say  "F*CK OFF 5WW", that's what I would supply.

It is therefore with great trepidation that I show a photo of Dave's possible box, with double live busbars and 2 x Neutral bars with 2-screw terminals. 

SBS Dave