Red And Black Cable On New Rewire?

[ProDave]

I think   Pro Dave said that in post 3

I'll have to post a BIGGER SMILEY next time.

It was very much tongue in cheek.

But it IS true you can sell the old stuff on ebay for more than a new drum, so whether the customer sells it, or you relieve him of it and sell it is up to you.

The debate about who buys it for inflated prices on ebay and why is another topic.

 

[Manator]

I would have thought as long as it is sleeved at all points of connection then it complies with BS7671.

Not so, yes a cable should be identified by a method as agreed in the regulations, however any materials used on any installation should be approved for use and to the standards adopted at the time.

 

[philbas]

Point   taken Dave,   but I stiil thing the word illegal is over used, as in "tut tut you do know that fuse box is illegal now, i will have to upgrade it"

 

[ProDave]

Point   taken Dave,   but I stiil thing the word illegal is over used, as in "tut tut you do know that fuse box is illegal now, i will have to upgrade it"

"Illegal" as in, sorry I can't use that mate, but I'll give you a fair price to take it off your hands.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I am sure  red & black carried BASEC app ?

 

[steptoe]

Dave, when did you actually say it was illegal?

you only said to tell the customer it was illegal,

different thing,

sometimes, [and im guilty of it too], people read what they think is there, and not the actual sentence wrote.

 

[philbas]

"Illegal" as in, sorry I can't use that mate, but I'll give you a fair price to take it off your hands.

Exactly   as in "That's a 3061   fuse Bord, that's illegal now"

 

[steptoe]

Not so, yes a cable should be identified by a method as agreed in the regulations, however any materials used on any installation should be approved for use and to the standards adopted at the time.

naaaw,

I still use green sleeving for me earths, and VIR for my lighting circuits.

 

[philbas]

For some thing to be illegal it must contravene a law

 

[OnOff]

And the answer is:

:lol:

Seriously, I'd be wary. I find some old T&E alright but other stuff and it's like something's "leeched" out of the sheath or insulation and stuck them together. I know original quality could have varied. Saying that I worked on some T&E been in the  wall since 1960 and it was like new!

 

[Bacon]

On 31st March 2004 the IEE published Amendments No2 to BS 7671:2001 (the IEE Wiring Regulations) which specify the required core colours for cables used in all new fixed wiring electrical installations in the UK. The new colour scheme has been nicknamed ‘harmonised’ colouring as it will make UK electrical installations more similar to those currently used in mainland Europe.

Any electrical installation work that started before the 31st March 2006 had the choice of using the new harmonised cable colours or the previous ones, although not both. However, any works that started after the date are legally required to comply with the new harmonised colouring.

 

[steptoe]

On 31st March 2004 the IEE published Amendments No2 to BS 7671:2001 (the IEE Wiring Regulations) which specify the required core colours for cables used in all new fixed wiring electrical installations in the UK. The new colour scheme has been nicknamed ‘harmonised’ colouring as it will make UK electrical installations more similar to those currently used in mainland Europe.

Any electrical installation work that started before the 31st March 2006 had the choice of using the new harmonised cable colours or the previous ones, although not both. However, any works that started after the date are legally required to comply with the new harmonised colouring.

so,

there you go,

the IEE are the ones stating it is illegal. !!!

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Posted by onoff  'Seriously, I'd be wary. I find some old T&E alright but other stuff and it's like something's "leeched" out of the sheath or insulation and stuck them together. I know original quality could have varied. Saying that I worked on some T&E been in the  wall since 1960 and it was like new!'

Before anyone quotes 'its Di-isoctyl phthalate' many cables simply were poorly made. The worst was Doncaster tw & e where the black was stuck to the sheath 85% of the time 

 

[Manator]

Posted by onoff  'Seriously, I'd be wary. I find some old T&E alright but other stuff and it's like something's "leeched" out of the sheath or insulation and stuck them together. I know original quality could have varied. Saying that I worked on some T&E been in the  wall since 1960 and it was like new!'

Before anyone quotes 'its Di-isoctyl phthalate' many cables simply were poorly made. The worst was Doncaster tw & e where the black was stuck to the sheath 85% of the time 

I must point out that this was a manufacturing problem which has since been resolved and Doncaster cable now conform to basec requirements and are approved as such.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I must point out that this was a manufacturing problem which has since been resolved and Doncaster cable now conform to basec requirements and are approved as such.

I hope so, unless they are still knocking out red & black.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Why is anyone suggesting sleeving a red/black cable?????

If ever I saw some red/Black sleeved over with Brown/Blue..

then immediately I would be thinking this is someone trying to suggest work was done at an earlier time....

AFAIK there was never a requirement in the regs to sleeve a red/black with brown/blue...

If it was genuine "older" work it would just be Red & Black.. NO sleeve!!!!

You don't go sleeving all reds when doing alteration to old installtions..

so why would anyone be thinking of sleeving the reds brown now???

:C

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

When i am adding/altering connections at a switch or socket, so there is now  a mix of colours i do always mark the old colours . Not needed but i do.

Edit, especially with 3 phase, but that is in the regs to mark up.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I went to quote for a rewire today and the client asked if I could use some reels of cable they had. I had a look and it was Tower branded 2.5mm T&E new reels but in old colours. Apart from suggesting they flog it on ebay can it be used if I make sure I sleeve it in brown and blue?

Does cable have a lifespan from being put on a drum to when its is best used and got OFF the drum???

i.e. does it lose its flexibility and malleability for manhandling during installation work???

{e.g. like car tyres have a shelf life after which they should not be sold on as new..

even if they have never been unused...  think its about 5 years?}

As March 2004 - March 2006 was the transition window for old-new colours..

would it be safe to guess NO red/Black was actually manufactured after March 2004????

So could this cable have been sitting coiled up for 9 or 10 years????

The question I would ask the customer is..

Will you still get paid if you install it then a after being manhandled the IR readings deteriorate..

so that you cannot energise the circuits???

AND..

Will you then get paid again to replace nay sections of cable that do fail IR tests AFTER being installed??

Personally...

I wouldn't use it. opcorn

When i am adding/altering connections at a switch or socket, so there is now  a mix of colours i do always mark the old colours . Not needed but i do.

Edit, especially with 3 phase, but that is in the regs to mark up.

3-phase different question IMHO....

CAD's question is about a domestic rewire I thought???

I never sleeve any old Red/Blacks  if adding onto and old circuit..

waste of time.. when sticker on fuse box is quicker!   

Just to add....

I think I would even be dubious of using a coil of cable I had in my own stock that was coming on for 10 years old......

:C

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I have just finished 3 houses that were 3 phase. Back box earth lead not normally needed but i always fit those as well.

 

[steptoe]

Ive used brown/blue prior to 2004 under 7671 and I was told it was perfectly acceptable by my QS at the time,