Red & Black / Red&Yellow&Blue

[Stevie h]

I had a chance of 4x 2.5mm t+e and 3 x 1.5mm t+e red and black(100m) not so long ago, didn't bother as my van was full to the brim, anyway it turns out the lad who was selling it got +

 

[batty]

I had a chance of 4x 2.5mm t+e and 3 x 1.5mm t+e red and black(100m) not so long ago, didn't bother as my van was full to the brim, anyway it turns out the lad who was selling it got +

 

[bengie]

i bought a 100m drum of 1.5 twin the other day and it was nearly

 

[mch]

What about new installations using old colours?

I have just installed a simple spur off a ring main in a new residential building, only finished last year. Wiring on this ring is red/black. Installer is NICEIC member. Is this legal? Could the contractor be prosecuted if anyone "blew the gaff" on them?

I'm saying nothing, but it turns out a friend has bought another apartment in the block and is steaming mad that his

 

[Andy™]

7671 is not law...

 

[Lurch]

it turns out a friend has bought another apartment in the block and is steaming mad

Why? What is wrong with red and black cable? Is it unsafe, can your friend not work out which one is phase and which one is neutral? I'd tell him to * cos he sounds like some nosey old git who sticks his oar in at every opportunity regardless of whether he has a clue.

 

[batty]

What about new installations using old colours?I have just installed a simple spur off a ring main in a new residential building, only finished last year. Wiring on this ring is red/black. Installer is NICEIC member. Is this legal? Could the contractor be prosecuted if anyone "blew the gaff" on them?

I'm saying nothing, but it turns out a friend has bought another apartment in the block and is steaming mad that his

 

[Doc Hudson]

What about new installations using old colours?I have just installed a simple spur off a ring main in a new residential building, only finished last year. Wiring on this ring is red/black. Installer is NICEIC member. Is this legal? Could the contractor be prosecuted if anyone "blew the gaff" on them?

I'm saying nothing, but it turns out a friend has bought another apartment in the block and is steaming mad that his

 

[sparkytim]

Part P

 

[Andy™]

Part P

you can legally wire in old colours... just make a note of it as deviation. its probably safer than new colours, and it was never 'dangerous' all the time it was used

 

[PBC_1966]

Part P

"Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury."

Can't see how "old" colors would fall foul of that.

 

[sparkytim]

All new work needs to comply with BS 7671

Why would some want to use Old colours other then to hide the age of there NEW work?

 

[bengie]

because they have loads of old cable..............

 

[PBC_1966]

All new work needs to comply with BS 7671

There is no law which says that.

Why would some want to use Old colours other then to hide the age of there NEW work?

If you mean to make it appear that the work was done pre-Part P, then the colors alone don't make much difference, since the new cable was available before 2005.

because they have loads of old cable..............

And if it's a new addition to an existing installation and you have enough old stocks, it seems rather more sensible to maintain the existing scheme than to introduce another one just because that's the new standard.

 

[sparkytim]

Part P IS a legal requirement (

 

[Lurch]

But still, I can;t see it being a problem.

 

[PBC_1966]

Part P IS a legal requirement

Yes, Part P is a legal requirement, but all that Part P of the Building Regulations says is that:

Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury.

It does not mandate compliance with BS7671. The only direct reference to BS7671 in the actual legislation is for the definition of special location.

Part P page 7 SECTION 0.1 STATES" In the Secretary of State's view the requirements will be met be adherence to..... BS7671"

That's from the Approved Document for Part P, which is just officially sanctioned guidelines.

And it doesn't actually say that "In the Secretary of State's view the requirements will be met be adherence to..... BS7671."

Section 0.1 says:

In the Secretary of State's view the requirements will be met be adherence to the 'Fundamental Principles' for achieving safety given in BS7671:2001 Chapter 13.

That's not the same as saying BS7671 in its entirety. Section 0.2 then goes to say that a way (note "a" way, not the only way) of complying would be to follow BS7671. But the same section also explicitly refers to other standards which are to be considered as acceptable.

And the non-mandatory nature of the Approved Document is stated clearly in the introductory notes on page 3:

Approved Documents are intended to provide guidance for some of the more common building situations. However, there may well be alternative ways of achieving compliance with the requirements. Thus there is no obligation to adopt any particular solution contained in an Approved Document if you prefer to meet the relevant requirement in some other way.

(And that's their emphasis on the last sentence, not mine.)

Also when you fill out the Schedule of inspections "Identification" box (d)"Identification of conductors" this must comply with BS7671 (2008)

But it is only BS7671 which says it must comply. And even a BS7671 electrical installation certificate has space to enter deviations from BS7671!

 

[batty]

You can talk about this all day. The simple way I see it is if you are doing a new installation it should be to harmonized colours if you are doing alterations to existing circuits on older installations you could use old colours if you have them but must note as a deviation on certificate. If you are putting a new circuit in on old installation you should use new colours really but probably could use old colours if you have them and note it as a deviation on certificate. I can't see how anybody has any old colours in significant quantities anyway, they are obviously not electricians.

 

[sparkytim]

Tell you what lets chuck the BRB in the bin and all do our own thing!

 

[Lurch]

Tell you what lets chuck the BRB in the bin and all do our own thing!

I think you're taking it a little far. Just wind it in a bit and have a look at what is being discussed, the use of cable that is a different colour to the current standards, the same colour that is in 99% of installations in the UK.