Red & Black / Red&Yellow&Blue

[sparkytim]

I think you're taking it a little far. Just wind it in a bit and have a look at what is being discussed, the use of cable that is a different colour to the current standards, the same colour that is in 99% of installations in the UK.

I am not disputing that fact but I can see no reason to fail to use Harmonised cable on NEW installation work.

PS

Any one got any VIR hanging around?

 

[PBC_1966]

I am not disputing that fact but I can see no reason to fail to use Harmonised cable on NEW installation work.

Maintaining consistency with existing cabling when installing new circuits or additions is a good reason. In a commercial installation with 3-phase it would be an even more convincing reason given the head-on clash between black & blue in the two systems.

And why waste perfectly good cable?

 

[Evans Electric]

Its time for a revolution !!!! Sparkytim can be our leader , we must march on the IEE HQ where we will burn the BRB.......... Burn the OSG , Burn everything !!!!! we must all wear Blackshirts and armbands with streaks of lightning on, Banish the Scams , IEE ,ECA ,NIC The Forum will be the leading authority in Europe , we will change the European colours to RYB/Bk , bring back the fibre Rawlplug, all sockets to be fixed to the skirting boards and dist. bds to be 3036 with free cards of fusewire for all .

Whats that ?? Special Branch are investigating........ Oh .....er... well it was all Admin's idea ......we were just obeying orders.......... sorrers ... oh and it was Brian too , he led us on .

 

[Andy™]

I am not disputing that fact but I can see no reason to fail to use Harmonised cable on NEW installation work.PS

Any one got any VIR hanging around?

you make no sense at all. old colours & new colours are all made to same standard. VIR is completely different, and stating would i use that has nothing to do with this.

the fact still remains that 7671 is not law, and you can legally deviate from it providing the same level of safety is maintained. using old colours is still safe.

me personally, i almost always use new colours, but i have used old colours in the past and would do again if necessary

 

[Andy™]

Tell you what lets chuck the BRB in the bin and all do our own thing!

just because you dont fully agree (lack of knowledge more like) doesnt mean its wrong.

 

[netblindpaul]

Look guys, I have loads of red & black singles in stock in a variety of csa's and use them regularly and will continue to do so.

Also, when I do I don't "fall foul" of BS7671 or "Part P" in any way means shape or form.

Paul

 

[Evans Electric]

Took some meter tails from my store last week , went to site, fitted new C/U found they were R & Bk ....Oh well , used it anyway ,won't be losing any sleep TBH.

 

[batty]

Look guys, I have loads of red & black singles in stock in a variety of csa's and use them regularly and will continue to do so.Also, when I do I don't "fall foul" of BS7671 or "Part P" in any way means shape or form.

Paul

But would you use it on a newer installation with harmonised colours?

 

[netblindpaul]

YEP! Do it regularly and still it does not fall foul of any requirements of BS7671 or "Part P"

In fact it is fully compliant...

Think...

Paul

 

[PBC_1966]

YEP! Do it regularly and still it does not fall foul of any requirements of BS7671 or "Part P"In fact it is fully compliant...

Think...

Sleeved at terminations?

 

[netblindpaul]

Nope NEVER would, as it then would be NON compliant.

Think...

Outside the box?...

Paul

 

[PBC_1966]

ELV/control circuits then, perhaps?

Why would appropriate sleeving be non-compliant?

 

[netblindpaul]

Almost PBC!

Red is a.c. control

Black is a.c. power

As per BS EN 60204-1.

Oh and fair cop appropriate sleeving would be OK.

It was getting late & I left out a bit, in that sleeved brown, black, grey & blue would not be compliant with 60204 as these colours are not recognised IIRC, my copy is not around now.

I just posted this as a thought provoker as 7671 is not the only standard relevant to electrical systems.

In fact 60204 does have as much if not more clout as it is a harmonised standard which is stated in the Machinery Directive as a way of compliance with its EHSR's.

BTW, I still have some B&R fixed install wiring mtls and would use them up if it were necessary, and just add a comment on the MWC/EIC that both colours are in use, and yes I would over mark them with the new colours, I do this with any old colours I come across as well as adding "the sticker" where relevant, normally I do the true origin & the circuit origin DB at which I work.

Paul

 

[PBC_1966]

Ah, wiring in self-contained control panels or other equipment.

Not covered by BS7671, as you say.

 

[netblindpaul]

Sorry Guys, had to do it, just to widen awareness and remind everyone that 7671 is not the be all and end all!

No bad feelings please!

 

[PBC_1966]

that 7671 is not the be all and end all!

:Applaud

 

[bengie]

sparkytim, is it illegal to use 3core&earth to wire a fan then as there isn't a blue core? or should we be running a double insulated blue single alongside the 3core to comply?

 

[Andy™]

sparkytim, is it illegal to use 3core&earth to wire a fan then as there isn't a blue core? or should we be running a double insulated blue single alongside the 3core to comply?

you would also need a DI brown for live, or switched live....

 

[bengie]

quite, i only mentioned the blue/grey as it was the colour mentioned earlier

 

[netblindpaul]

sparkytim, is it illegal to use 3core&earth to wire a fan then as there isn't a blue core? or should we be running a double insulated blue single alongside the 3core to comply?

bengie,

You can use any wire you like in any colour to comply with the statutory legal requirements of BS7671 as it is not a legal requirement to comply with 7671. End of.