Regs. Relating to Renewable Energy

[Lurch]

I am of the opinion that if it originates from the DB it is fixed wiring. If it is plugged in then not. You have to unplug everything to do a test don't you?Surely at that point it becomes not part of the installation.

This was a loophole that was used when part p came in, so it was then closed. Fixed wiring is fixed wiring regardless of where it is fed from, a thing fed from a plug top isn;t neccesarily not fixed wiring or classed as a portable appliance.

 

[mercurystar999]

Is part p, part of BS7671?

 

[spinlondon]

No, it's not.

 

[mercurystar999]

So it bears no relevance then, when i do my PIR.

I'd like to know how anyone could come to be in any trouble because of it.

 

[spinlondon]

I guess someone could be in trouble, if you stated any of the wiring was done since Part P came into force, and no notifications had been made?

 

[Lurch]

Is part p, part of BS7671?

No, part p is part of the building regulations.

Obviously under some circumstances on some jobs you would need to comply with one or the other, or both, or none.

So it bears no relevance then, when i do my PIR. I'd like to know how anyone could come to be in any trouble because of it.

Because if you have done a PIR and it says you have tested everything but it turns out you missed half of it because the fixed wiring was on a plugtop and this then caused the house to burn down due to a fault you overlooked because you were being a pedant and ignoring the building regualtions then first of all you shouldn;t be doing PIR's and secondly someone wil want someone to blame, and you'll be top of the list.

 

[steptoe]

No, part p is part of the building regulations. Obviously under some circumstances on some jobs you would need to comply with one or the other, or both, or none.

Because if you have done a PIR and it says you have tested everything but it turns out you missed half of it because the fixed wiring was on a plugtop and this then caused the house to burn down due to a fault you overlooked because you were being a pedant and ignoring the building regualtions then first of all you shouldn;t be doing PIR's and secondly someone wil want someone to blame, and you'll be top of the list.

so you put in your limitations box that anything connected via a 13a plug top has not been tested.

I see your point about part P and the heat pumps etc,(need to remember that), so what happens then after I wire the house and issue a cert they lash an exchanger outside, drop the cable down a stud and plug it in? fixed but nowhere to be seen when I did my EIC.

 

[Lurch]

There isn;t a standard thing or a proper answer to this. Obviously it all depends on the job and the circumstances.

Use your experience and judgement to do what you can. At the end of the day if you say I'm not testing all this stuff on a plugtop and that leaves out half the installation then there's several things wrong there. Firstly, you are knowingly ignoring half the installation due to a technicality, secondly you are doing yourself out of work, for the teesting and also for the remedials, of which one is ceertainly make the fixed wiring not be powered from a plugtop I would imagine.

 

[mercurystar999]

But my test only covers the fixed installation. If i felt it necessary i may put it down in the exclusions.

When i did my apprenticeship i remember the tutor telling me complying BS7671 was my only defence. I now that part p has since come in but to comply with part p i must comply with the regs. The regs tell me anything plugged in is not part of the fixed wiring.

 

[Lurch]

But my test only covers the fixed installation. If i felt it necessary i may put it down in the exclusions. When i did my apprenticeship i remember the tutor telling me complying BS7671 was my only defence. I now that part p has since come in but to comply with part p i must comply with the regs.

When did you do your apprenticeship? My tutor told me loads of things. However, most of that is now incorrect as there have been 3 versions of the regulations and many changes to the building regulations since then.

The regs tell me anything plugged in is not part of the fixed wiring.

Where?

 

[mercurystar999]

Where what?

Part P hasn't superseded the regs yet has it?

Apprenticeship done in late 90's, not like it makes any difference

 

[Lurch]

Where what?

Where in the regs does it say plugged in things are portable appliances regardless?

Part p hasn't superseded the regs yet has it?

I never said it had. You need to follow the relevant standards and perform your work to a competent level. the regs do state you should use good worksmanship, I've already said leaving out half the wiring on a technicality when testing is in contravention of this IMO.

Apprenticeship done in late 90's, not like it makes any difference

It does, as I've already said. I take it you aren;t actually reading any of these replies? If not then I'll just not bother answering any of your questions.

 

[The Godfather]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercurystar999 View Post

The regs tell me anything plugged in is not part of the fixed wiring.

Where?

I would agree with that, BS7671 is only applicable to the fixed wiring up to any sockets, lighting points and associated switches etc..

What the client connects to a socket and or lighting rose is separate from BS7671.

The Godfather

 

[Lurch]

I would agree with that, BS7671 is only applicable to the fixed wiring up to any sockets, lighting points and associated switches etc..

What the client connects to a socket and or lighting rose is separate from BS7671.

I don;t see that bit. All I see is bits of info saying that fixed wiring is fixed wiring, nothing specifically relating to plugs used to supply an installation, apart from bits about installations or final circuits can be fed from plugs and sockets.

If you had to go to a job to do a test that was fed from a generator via say a 125A plug, would you just say there's nothing to test as it's fed from a plug?

 

[The Godfather]

I don;t see that bit. All I see is bits of info saying that fixed wiring is fixed wiring, nothing specifically relating to plugs used to supply an installation, apart from bits about installations or final circuits can be fed from plugs and sockets.
If you had to go to a job to do a test that was fed from a generator via say a 125A plug, would you just say there's nothing to test as it's fed from a plug?

What on earth are you on about? and what relevance is that?

Kindly quote me some regulations as to what you are talking about.

Don

 

[Lurch]

What on earth are you on about? and what relevance is that?

You and wotsisname were saying fed from a plug, not an installation.

Kindly quote me some regulations as to what you are talking about.

I asked that question first and haven;t seen anything yet. I think this is going to turn into one of those pointless threads where nothign actually happens. I'm not really that bothered TBH, I'm happy to just pretend I was never here.

 

[steptoe]

please remember gentlemen,

BS7671 is NOT law

part P IS law

please comply as you see fit.

me.?

well Im gonna try and stay legal.

 

[mercurystar999]

please remember gentlemen,BS7671 is NOT law

part P IS law

please comply as you see fit.

me.?

well Im gonna try and stay legal.

But to comply with law you must follow BS7671.

 

[ianmacd]

But to comply with law you must follow BS7671.

*hangs head"

Here we go again. No you do not. All 7671 gives you is a way to comply so following it you know you have complied but there are other ways too.

 

[exbdc]

As a non-electrcian I have found the debate, & peoples' interpretation, about the regs. very interesting.

What are the ramifications for both parties of using an electrician who is not part P qualified for domestic work? Would it affect the householders' insurance &/or cause probs. if they sold their house? Also could the electrician be held accountable to anybody e.g. Trading Standards for working without the proper qualifications?