Reporting Unsafe or non-compliant electrical installation!
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It will be interesting to see what they do with the 'complaints'. Personally I would like to see minimum training standards to enter the profession, although I have seen plenty of bad work by 'time served' sparks, as well as the untrained, think they know how to do the job. It's also fair to say I took advantage of part P and short courses to retrain into the industry. But I had previously completed a Tech eng apprenticeship within the aircraft industry where I spent a lot of time wiring military equipment and test gear, so it wasn't like I didn't know how to make good electrical connections. Some of my work flies at Mach 2 pulling lots of G force. A house wire to those standards would cost around £100k
It will be interesting to see what they do with the 'complaints'. Personally I would like to see minimum training standards to enter the profession, although I have seen plenty of bad work by 'time served' sparks, as well as the untrained, think they know how to do the job. It's also fair to say I took advantage of part P and short courses to retrain into the industry. But I had previously completed a Tech eng apprenticeship within the aircraft industry where I spent a lot of time wiring military equipment and test gear, so it wasn't like I didn't know how to make good electrical connections. Some of my work flies at Mach 2 pulling lots of G force. A house wire to those standards would cost around £100k
I see some truly awful installations AND EICR certificates by long standing members of NAPIT.
I think they know that the will never get checked so they simply don't give a dam anymore
it feels like the whole of society is going that way, with buggr all Police, getting away with things is so easy, so why not electrical work to boot! The one serious case I was involved with (NB I prepared a report for the ripped off customer) that went to court resulted in a prosecution for misuse of the NICEIC logo, not shoddy work.
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I have been though a similar exercise, with similar results..
An added complication in this instance was that the builder had appointed the electrician not the customer..
Electrician claimed to be NICEIC and issued false cert...
But the customer couldn't make a claim against the electrician as their contract was with the builder...
So customer takes builder to court..
Trading standards & NICEIC get involved, confirming electrician was trading fraudulently...
No mention of the numerous electrical faults..
or lack of 30ma RCD protection on any part of the original installation or the new two story extension..
etc.. etc..
Plus the customer says the builder did the electrical installation and the electrician only popped in to do the dodgy testing & cert..
because the builder & electrician are mates!!
So to prosecute for the electrical work they would have somehow had to prove who did what?
which would need one of them to dob on his mate!
In the end I think it was just nail the builder for various building regs non-compliances..
and nail the electrician for false use of logo etc.
Basically it's much harder to prove who did any shoddy work..
unless they openly admit to doing it, or you have video proof of them doing it..
If the police struggle to get a decent prosecution against a driver they have been following with several minutes of offences on their own cameras...
Then there is little hope of proving shoddy electrical work...
Probably the only workable solution would be if you could just prosecute the homeowner for not ensuring all electrical work is safe..
giving them more incentive to obtain correct certification from contractors who also accept liability for all work they do on behalf of the customer.
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cant see how putting the blame on the homeowner would be the only workable solution. yes, they should do their research first when finding someone, but how far is it reasonable to go? person doing the work could have all the required qualifications etc and still do the job wrong,
but if they go with the cheapest quote from dave from the pub then they also need to take some of the blame for that...
It will be interesting to see what they do with the 'complaints'. Personally I would like to see minimum training standards to enter the profession, although I have seen plenty of bad work by 'time served' sparks, as well as the untrained, think they know how to do the job. It's also fair to say I took advantage of part P and short courses to retrain into the industry. But I had previously completed a Tech eng apprenticeship within the aircraft industry where I spent a lot of time wiring military equipment and test gear, so it wasn't like I didn't know how to make good electrical connections. Some of my work flies at Mach 2 pulling lots of G force. A house wire to those standards would cost around £100k
Same here @binky .... if it was MOD and flew, I probably fixed something on at least one of them... fast, heavy and rotor,,, from the Buccaneer (as an apprentice) to Tornado... Eurofighter had only just come in when I left and the maintenance contract was still with the manufacturers.
I mostly worked on weaponry to shoot planes down, Seadart and Vertical launch Seawolf. I also did some work on crash recorders ( black boxes), which seemed rather ironic
. Little known fact, the fire insulation on crash recorders is a rock consisting of fossilized snails.
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Because part of the problem is that some homeowners know full well they are getting a "cheap-job" done by a mate or family relative..
who they don't want to snitch on because he is a mate/friend..
And it is only the customer who can make a complaint about any tradespersons work as it is basically a contractual dispute about someone not providing goods or services that are fit for purpose or of merchantable quality..
So if the customer is happy with dodgy work and thinks there is no risk of being identified / fined,
they are less likely to even try to get good quality work done.
But if there was some pathway to report dangerous electrics that you find at a property..
Leaving the onus on the homeowner to prove / disprove who did the work in order to avoid a personal fine it may increase their attempt to actually use someone competent..
If by some added misfortune their selected contractor does turn out to be incompetent, then the homeowner would simply pass on the contractors details along with the quote/invoice/certificate as evidence to pass all liability over to whoever actually did the work..
In a sort of rough similar principal to the registered keeper of a vehicle being responsible if the vehicle is clocked through as speed camera...
either pay the fine.. or pass on the actual drivers details!
Or with the newer trend of submitting dangerous driving dash-cam footage to the police to fine a vehicles registered keeper for other traffic offences..
So if there was a method to submit a video / photo of some dangerous installation practice you find at a domestic dwelling..
for some other independent competent person able to confirm / disprove then at least there would be an avenue for a third party to initiate some form of complaint..
Currently there is pretty much NO responsibility for anyone doing anything.. and no way to initiate any legal complaints if the homeowner is not willing to co-operate!
As I said..
same basic principal as the registered-keeper of a vehicle have responsibility for the vehicles usage!
Somebody somewhere should be responsible for what goes on at a property?
Wherever you choose to place the blame it is somewhat negated by the publicity and conditioning that using an NICEIC approved contractor and more recently NAPIT and the other schemes that are around reputedly gives the customer some guarantee of a compliant and safe job because they have been assessed.
The problem is when it all goes wrong and the customer is left with a dangerous non compliant installation and if it is issued paperwork that is dodgy, then it comes to making a complaint and the customer finds the contractor is not part of the scheme they claimed to be in because they let their membership lapse and if they are still a member the scheme the customer doesn't seem to get any help from the schemes to progress a complaint or know the outcome of any complaint because it is deemed a data protection issue
As for reporting a dangerous issue I think it is time the HSE had some involvement when complaints about dangerous work are raised with schemes or any contractor for that matter
The problem is when it all goes wrong and the customer is left with a dangerous non compliant installation and if it is issued paperwork that is dodgy, then it comes to making a complaint and the customer finds the contractor is not part of the scheme they claimed to be in because they let their membership lapse and if they are still a member the scheme the customer doesn't seem to get any help from the schemes to progress a complaint or know the outcome of any complaint because it is deemed a data protection issue
As for reporting a dangerous issue I think it is time the HSE had some involvement when complaints about dangerous work are raised with schemes or any contractor for that matter
In the case I was involved with the customer had done the classic mate of a mate down the pub, got a cheapish job done, but they did so much damage she then complained to them first to repair the damage, then Trading Standards when they refused.
Stat collection usually invovles upselling these days...Im afraidI've just logged into Napit to do a notification and this caught my eye!
View attachment 13429
Call me cynical but if this is just to be used to collate data, whats the point of reporting it?
And more importantly why would we bother
My CPS assessor spent more time last year asking about how much my insurance’s cost and how many certificates I do - both lines of questioning made me think they are just after more money
Interesting read, but I think holding the customer responsible just isn't going to work, how many customers keep your invoices, how many even know what certificates you should have, give it several months, or years, and how many customers are still going to have the invoice, or even remember who did the job - I know I can't. But if I get a speeding fine through I'll know who was using my car a few weeks ago, months or years down the road, I'll probably know who, either me or the Mrs!
I'm a workshop manager, our 3 phase compressor was wired in by someone supposed to be qualified, can't remember how I discovered it, but the earth wire was incorrectly fitted - the screw had bottomed out and not tightened on the wire, it had been like it for well over a year.
Just the other week, one of our customers purchased a brand new Renault van, as part of that purchase he paid £1000 to have a tow bar fitted, it looked well installed. First trip out he noticed the lightly loaded trailer veering off to one side, so he slowed down and stopped, only to find the tow ball had pulled off and the trailer was disconnected - a very close call. The tow ball bracket was still bolted to the box section, but it had ripped the metal out of the box section. He phoned Renault, they said nothing to do with us that's the tow bar companies problem, but his contract was with Renault, so it was and is their problem. Anyway turned out the engineering company that the tow bar company had used to make the bespoke bracket assembly had skimped for whatever reason on the box section, they used 2mm instead of 5mm box, and the tow bar company had not noticed just how light it was when they installed, oh and the tow bar company hadn't installed it correctly either, as one the two bolts that hold the tow ball on hadn't penetrated the nyloc in the nut, so that could come undone. Said tow bar company had 5 star reviews on Google - I wonder just how many other people have inadequate tow bars,
Incompetent workers are unfortunately everywhere, and I've no idea how to tackle it.
I'm a workshop manager, our 3 phase compressor was wired in by someone supposed to be qualified, can't remember how I discovered it, but the earth wire was incorrectly fitted - the screw had bottomed out and not tightened on the wire, it had been like it for well over a year.
Just the other week, one of our customers purchased a brand new Renault van, as part of that purchase he paid £1000 to have a tow bar fitted, it looked well installed. First trip out he noticed the lightly loaded trailer veering off to one side, so he slowed down and stopped, only to find the tow ball had pulled off and the trailer was disconnected - a very close call. The tow ball bracket was still bolted to the box section, but it had ripped the metal out of the box section. He phoned Renault, they said nothing to do with us that's the tow bar companies problem, but his contract was with Renault, so it was and is their problem. Anyway turned out the engineering company that the tow bar company had used to make the bespoke bracket assembly had skimped for whatever reason on the box section, they used 2mm instead of 5mm box, and the tow bar company had not noticed just how light it was when they installed, oh and the tow bar company hadn't installed it correctly either, as one the two bolts that hold the tow ball on hadn't penetrated the nyloc in the nut, so that could come undone. Said tow bar company had 5 star reviews on Google - I wonder just how many other people have inadequate tow bars,
Incompetent workers are unfortunately everywhere, and I've no idea how to tackle it.
I'm under the impression that towbars have to be built to a tested design. I don't think it's legal to cobble together your own design.
I've just logged into Napit to do a notification and this caught my eye!
View attachment 13429
Call me cynical but if this is just to be used to collate data, whats the point of reporting it?
And more importantly why would we bother
Some Garages can be an absolute nightmare. My company car 1 week into use and steering wheel came loose ! YEP, and main dealer told me to drive it back to them !!!! Hard to believe. Then new rear extra Fog lights fitted and wiring stopped removal of rear ligh unit to fit bulbs. Pathetic.
Interesting about NAPIT, when I joined initially at the start of this PartP farce as others have noted we had 5 day wonders etc. At the time NAPIT could not get around to test folk !. First Yr no paperwork just pay insurance and OK !.
Went to friends house & builders sparkies were doing some alterations !!! WOW, asked if they were certified because they should have been ?. Literally & Physically !. YEP pointed out to friend there was a problem !.
Sparkies said they were qualified with NAPIT !!!!. Reported to NAPIT, thanks we will look into it !! NOTHING, waste of time. Like others I think ALL testing should be included with Building Regs & supporting evidence should be part of HOUSE/HOME history !. With the "Grenfell" Tower-Block fire an inspector noted that when Elect sockets removed, you could see directly into next room ! "NO FIRE BLOCKING" ! We have a long way to go. Rgds Stay safe.
Went to friends house & builders sparkies were doing some alterations !!! WOW, asked if they were certified because they should have been ?. Literally & Physically !. YEP pointed out to friend there was a problem !.
Sparkies said they were qualified with NAPIT !!!!. Reported to NAPIT, thanks we will look into it !! NOTHING, waste of time. Like others I think ALL testing should be included with Building Regs & supporting evidence should be part of HOUSE/HOME history !. With the "Grenfell" Tower-Block fire an inspector noted that when Elect sockets removed, you could see directly into next room ! "NO FIRE BLOCKING" ! We have a long way to go. Rgds Stay safe.
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