Requirements please

[Martin Dale]

Ok guys be nice if this seems a little basic but checking im right. 

So ive been in industry long time but generally ind and commercial not done much domestic.

Ive about 15 years under belt and 2391 18th edition PAT courses to compliment full apprenticeship and degree (HND) too.

To do donestic work if wanted set own company up  do you need to keep company departments seperate for industrial and domestic?

Do i need the part p course for domestic if so why ?

Do i have to be a member of NICEIC or other approved body to do domestic work i know for industry you do not have to.

Thanks guys 

Sorry above should include 

Can i not prove through competence and experiences that i do not need membership to a electrical body e.g. elecsa, nic etc

 

[Murdoch]

What domestic work did you plan to do and where in the UK are you?

Answers tho both questions are important to give a sensible response

 

[Murdoch]

What domestic work did you plan to do and where in the UK are you?

Answers tho both questions are important to give a sensible response

Couldn't edit my initial response but in answer to "company departments separate" - why would you? 

Electrical installations, changes and repairs have the same requirements in BS 7671 in ANY situation

 

[Martin Dale]

Ok. 

Im cheshire based.

Id be looking at domestic works in pre existing properties from minor works, to installations also like to do EICR reports pat testing for landlords etc.

If possible id still stay with the commercial and ind stuff too.

To get as much work as possible to start and see where i end up.

Just idea at the minute im comfortable in current role as maintenance electrician but see the potential advantages of being self employed 

 

[Martin Dale]

Couldn't edit my initial response but in answer to "company departments separate" - why would you? 

Electrical installations, changes and repairs have the same requirements in BS 7671 in ANY situation

Was thinking if i did get both work simplify things If set to ind/commercial and domestic but wouldn't have to.

If anyone would be kind enough to allow me to call them to discuss id be really grateful but understand people are busy and no problems if people dont want to leave contact numbers online. 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/441872/BR_PDF_AD_P_2013.pdf

The guidance for Part-P notification can be found in Approved document P.

all building regs approved documents can be found here

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/approved-documents

You can do all of your BS7671 related stuff install test, certify etc..  

But you need to decide how you intend organising the Part-P building regs compliance certificate as well.   (it is NOT just the BS7671 elec cert)

Not all domestic electrical work is notifiable, but for that which is there are three notification options..

which are all described in Section three of the Part p Doc, linked in the PDF file above..

The reality is if you are doing minimal notifiable work then the cost of membership to be called a registered competent person are a bit steep..

if you are doing a lot of notifiable work,  (New circuits, Fuse boxes, Rewires etc..) 

Then to be able to just self certify your own Part P work as well as the BS7671 certificate can be less hassle.

The bottom line is that it is possible to do domestic Part P related work without being a member of any scheme,

But you need to work closer with your local building control to get them to issue the Building regs approval documents stuff.

Guinness  

 

[Martin Dale]

Thanks for your replys

 

[Evans Electric]

There is , as always , much sense spoken above.   

The reality of Part P  is that most domestic customers are not bothered about it , have never heard of it .   It kicks in if you wire , say , a kitchen extension  with a builder or for the client .    At completion the work has to be passed off by Building Control  ,  they'd be looking for stuff like  a Gas Safe cert ... the  calcs for the RSJ's   etc etc  plus  an electrical  certificate from a "Competent" installer   (you)   .

 To prove you are competent,  unfortunately  you need to be a Domestic Installer  member of  NICEIC , NAPETT,  ECA  , STROMA  etc      STROMA are the cheapest  .   If I were you I'd just go with them  ,  pay the money and include it as an overhead  when you work out what your hourly rate  needs to be   along with  vehicle costs , insurance etc  .  

Just go with  the DI scheme  you probably don't really need  Full Scope  covering Industrial  etc .    

Just noticed your last line ......       as far as I know ....   no  they won't accept your competency as an individual  ...the above schemes were set up to do just that ...you prove it to them ,  they take your money & sign you up ,  then you can just sign off  all your domestic work  online  for a couple of quid a go . 

If you decide to become self employed get back on here , you will get all the advice you need .  

 

[Martin Dale]

There is , as always , much sense spoken above.   

The reality of Part P  is that most domestic customers are not bothered about it , have never heard of it .   It kicks in if you wire , say , a kitchen extension  with a builder or for the client .    At completion the work has to be passed off by Building Control  ,  they'd be looking for stuff like  a Gas Safe cert ... the  calcs for the RSJ's   etc etc  plus  an electrical  certificate from a "Competent" installer   (you)   .

 To prove you are competent,  unfortunately  you need to be a Domestic Installer  member of  NICEIC , NAPETT,  ECA  , STROMA  etc      STROMA are the cheapest  .   If I were you I'd just go with them  ,  pay the money and include it as an overhead  when you work out what your hourly rate  needs to be   along with  vehicle costs , insurance etc  .  

Just go with  the DI scheme  you probably don't really need  Full Scope  covering Industrial  etc .    

Just noticed your last line ......       as far as I know ....   no  they won't accept your competency as an individual  ...the above schemes were set up to do just that ...you prove it to them ,  they take your money & sign you up ,  then you can just sign off  all your domestic work  online  for a couple of quid a go . 

If you decide to become self employed get back on here , you will get all the advice you need .  

Huge thanks for above really useful 

Cheers 

 

[binky]

as per Evans reply, I cover all the works you undertake but only registered the business for Competent Person Scheme with Stroma - saves about £400. It's all you need. Wouldn't bother with Part P course - I've never been asked for that to gain registration.

 

[Tony S]

Can I ask why you want to do domestic work when you’re in industrial and commercial?

I was purely industrial until I retired. In forty years I rewired a grand total of four houses and hated every one of them.

 

[Evans Electric]

Wouldn't bother with Part P course - I've never been asked for that to gain registration.

I don't think there actually IS one ..is there ?  

 

[Evans Electric]

I rewired a grand total of four houses and hated every one of them.

Love it  !   Lets face it , they're not rocket science ....but if occupied  they are damned  hard work ..  often  a week on your knees ,  involving such skills as furniture  moving ,  carpet relaying  , floorboard removal & refitting , re-plastering  ,  crawling through 10 feet of fibreglass insulation , crawling under floors  , chasing KO boxes into brickwork  . I wouldn't do one now ,  I'd never walk again !!    

New housing or new extensions  are usually much easier .  

I worked in industry for years  ( a short period maintenance then contracting , mostly installation & overhead cranes ) . Becoming self employed  ,   the  industry in Birmingham was disappearing  fast and our work became commercial , banks , schools , universities , MOD,   offices etc  .          

           Now just working two days a week on mostly small domestic  work ....not even extensions or new build  now as my long term builder died recently .  

 

[Murdoch]

I always find these threads a little odd, as if the poster is expecting a completely separate set of regs for domestic .......

if the op expects to do EICR’s and remedial works, fuseboard changes will be par for the course .... then membership of a scam is required, and therefore he needs to contact them to check requirements etc.....

 

[Evans Electric]

I have to laugh sometimes ,after working   on big industrial  works,   100 Ton overhead cranes and jobs like the B,ham BT Tower  ...the Cardiff Freight liner lighting towers ..... site forman ...supervisor..estimator  on schools, hospitals , shops , blocks of flats , banks ...moving printing companies from A to B   ,  500A supplies  ,  bit of jointing ...  from  the 13th edition  --14th ---the 14th Metric ---the 15th --the 16th --- the 17 th. ............ 

................   then the Part P assessor turns up and   asks if I know how to isolate a circuit     :C    

 

[Evans Electric]

I always find these threads a little odd, as if the poster is expecting a completely separate set of regs for domestic .......

if the op expects to do EICR’s and remedial works, fuseboard changes will be par for the course .... then membership of a scam is required, and therefore he needs to contact them to check requirements etc.....

Exactly right Murdo .   But , surprisingly ,  he may be like at least 90%  of the guys  when I did 17th edition  course ....had no idea about Part P , never heard of ELECSA, NAPPITT,  etc     only NICEIC   never heard of notifying work  etc .  

Most were employees  I think , I was the only Self Employed one there ,    they also thought I was the tutor until this other guy walked in :facepalm:  

 

[binky]

I don't think there actually IS one ..is there ?  

there used to be when I retrained into electrics circa 2005 ish

................   then the Part P assessor turns up and   asks if I know how to isolate a circuit     :C    

 My favourite response is that I'm 53 and still alive.....doesn't tend to go down to well  :^O

 

[Mark2spark]

 To prove you are competent,  unfortunately  you need to be a Domestic Installer  member of  NICEIC , NAPETT,  ECA  , STROMA  etc      

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, although I get the idea behind it.

I used to be Elecsa registered but once the local Building Control actually got their heads around the whole part P and approved documents that went with it, and realised that the Building Control fee paid (full plans app or just a notice, doesn't matter) for an extension also covered the inspection of the electrical installation, then there was no real need for me to be Elecsa registered any more (or any of the Bodies), as Building Control now just accept my Certificates, as they are happy with my C & G 236 cert and also my ECS card saying 'Installation Electrician', as proof of me being 'competent'.

So now the householder pays the fee and hands my certificate over, BC are happy, end of story.

 

[Sharpend]

So to be clear here Mark,

doesn’t this only work on larger jobs which require planning/building control involvement from the outset? 

If they are not involved then when is the fee paid? 

 

[Evans Electric]

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, although I get the idea behind it.

I used to be Elecsa registered but once the local Building Control actually got their heads around the whole part P and approved documents that went with it, and realised that the Building Control fee paid (full plans app or just a notice, doesn't matter) for an extension also covered the inspection of the electrical installation, then there was no real need for me to be Elecsa registered any more (or any of the Bodies), as Building Control now just accept my Certificates, as they are happy with my C & G 236 cert and also my ECS card saying 'Installation Electrician', as proof of me being 'competent'.

So now the householder pays the fee and hands my certificate over, BC are happy, end of story.

That is exactly as it should have been  !     I thought I could do that when it first came in .    When employed I had a JIB Approved Elect card ....when I became self employed I changed that to an ECS  card  but none of that meant anything to my Local Building Control  .  

At that time you often had the builder ...thinking he could save a few bob...do his own electrics , no knowledge of our Regs of course  so you'd think  ,,,,100% improvement , a JIB Approved Electrician is doing it now  .......but no...they won't accept him /me as competent  for house bashing . 

I remember doing  a job with an electrical design engineer  at the time of Part Pee , highly qualified etc   ,  he wasn't deemed "Competent" to sign off  some woe work at his own house .  :C

I was also told that the LBC  couldn't cope with all the Part Pee  notifications coming in and were deleting it all . 

This makes me wonder ,  at first they were taking our certs away to photocopy .....  then they were just looking at the customer copy ....last one I did was all passed off , stamped & sealed  ................eight months  later I realised  we had tested it , filled in the cert and it was still in my pad .