Responsible or not

[Bez]

You CANNOT have a cable out of zones with just RCD protection.

http://www.esc.org.uk/forum/RCDversionFlowchart.pdf

I agree

 

[Bez]

Thanks Bez. Scoob sent too!

Thanks Patch, er what's a scoob, i'm not likely to tread in it or anything am I?

 

[Apache]

Thanks Patch, er what's a scoob, i'm not likely to tread in it or anything am I?

It's a good thing. See here

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=752

Sort of better than a thanks!

 

[Andy™]

So you are unable, or unwilling to produce evidence to support your arguments or claims.I don't need to refer to the Regulations every time I do something.

However when I disagree with something someone has said, then I have a tendancy to back my arguments up with references to the Regulations.

You may not be the only member disagreeing with me.

However, they have at least had the decency to explain their reasoning.

I know that leaving live cables buried in walls is dangerous, which is why I suggested the additional protection of an RCD.

Adhere to the zones by all means, don't state that it must be done to comply with the Regs. because it just ain't so.

Don't bother looking up a Reg. as there isn't one.

so why dont you show the reg that supports your side of this?

 

[spinlondon]

Bez is quite correct.

What people seem to be forgetting, is that allthough there is no requirement for cables that comply with 522.6.6 (i), (ii), (iii), or (IV) to have RCD protection, there is nothing preventing it from being provided.

My point is this.

If you remove an accessory, join the two ends of the cable and then conceal that join, the cable may no longer be in a safe zone.

This could impair the safety of the installation.

Providing RCD protection to this cable would in my opinion restore the level of safety to the installation.

 

[spinlondon]

[quote name='Andy

 

[niceguy]

Yes it would but there will still be live cables in a wall without mechanical protection and out of zones which IS NOT PERMITTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AAaaaaarrrgghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!headbangheadbangheadbang

 

[Andy™]

If you remove an accessory, join the two ends of the cable and then conceal that join, the cable may no longer be in a safe zone.

This could impair the safety of the installation.

Providing RCD protection to this cable would in my opinion restore the level of safety to the installation.

no, it wont 'restore the level of safety'. if there is an accessory in place, then its obvious there will be a cable somewhere. no accessory, and you have no idea anything will be there

 

[niceguy]

I have stated the Reg. Nos.Do you want me to quote them in their entirety?

Yes please.

 

[Lurch]

Running the cable in the zones is the fifth option if you can't meet any of the other four

Have you got anything to support this? I'm not in for an argument, I'm intrigued.

 

[Andy™]

I have stated the Reg. Nos.Do you want me to quote them in their entirety?

i have read 522.6.6/7/8 and still cant see anything to back you up. exactly which reg supports what you are saying?

 

[Andy™]

Have you got anything to support this? I'm not in for an argument, I'm intrigued.

yes. its reg 522.6.6 (v) - the fifth option!

 

[spinlondon]

Yes it would but there will still be live cables in a wall out of zones which IS NOT PERMITTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AAaaaaarrrgghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!headbangheadbangheadbang

I would point out to you that it is not permitted by BS7671 to install any circuit without a CPC.

The ESC best practice guide for changing CUs where there is no lighting CPC, advises that if all the fittings are plastic, and the circuit is RCD protected, the circuit will not have to have a CPC.

In what way does the advice given by the ESC differ from my opinion about removing accessories?

 

[niceguy]

What has circuit CPC's got to do with this?

Even so, THE CABLES ARE STILL IN A SAFE ZONE.

 

[Andy™]

spin - i cant see how the fact the cable has an earth has anything to do with this, nor the ESC guide to replacing a CU?

niceguy - how do you know the cables are 'still in a safe zone'? the cable route is unknown

 

[Lurch]

[quote name='Andy

 

[Andy™]

if you go with 522.6.6 (i), (ii), (iii) or (iv), then you dont need RCD protection. if you go with 522.6.6(v), then 522.6.7 states and RCD is to be used unless under supervision of skilled or instructed person.

i still cant see anywhere that allows a cable to be mechanically unprotected, providing you have an RCD

 

[Apache]

I'm getting confused (not helped by only part of 522.6.6 being written above!).I read it that Bez was saying that if a cable is in a safe zone it doesn't need an RCD, which 522.6.7 disagrees with.

Think you need a copy of the BRB to get this now.....

?:|

 

[spinlondon]

[quote name='Andy

 

[spinlondon]

I'l try and explain.

BS7671 requires all circuits to have a CPC.

Do you agree yes or no?

The ESC advice, is that if there is no CPC on a lighting circuit, it is permissable to leave the circuit without a CPC, if you RCD protect that circuit and to ensure that all fittings ar class II.