Sbs Trade Sales

[SBS Dave]

On the photos I showed of my new Enclosure range, the Main Switch was to the extreme left for the ENC-4S and ENC-6S. I left one space to the left on the ENC-9S and two spaces to the left of the Main switch on ENC-12S and ENC-18S. This was mainly to accomodate the tails, which quite often come in at the left and bent round to the right and into the Main Switch. However, the gap behind the DIN rail and the high terminal positions on my devices, means there is maximum room behind the DIN rail for the tails. This means the ENC-9S can have 7 ways, the ENC-12S can have 10 and the ENC-18S can have 16 ways.

Attached is a photo of a ENC-4S, showing how easy it is to run the tails behind the DIN rail, especially if you remove the DIN rail first. I am expecting stocks of the 9, 12 & 18 ways enclosures first week in May, although I still intend to stock the MK range.



By the way, this is just a mock-up photo and I only had 25mm brown!!.

 

[SBS Dave]

One of the problems encountered when replacing a board, especially with a 17th Edition one, is the lack of room to fit the new board. An all-RCBO board is often no wider than the old Wylex, so it isn't normally a problem. However, sometimes you have no alternative but to ibstall the replacement board sideways. The fact that the main switch and the RCBOs are sideways is not a problem, as they are usually installed this way on Commercial boards. For Domestic jobs, however, it is better for the circuit labels to be horizontal and I can offer a set of labels for just this situation. The attached mock-up shows my ENC-12S side-mounted, but with the labels perfectly legible. I will introduce these labels next month and I welcome your comments on this idea.

SBS Dave

 

[batty]

That looks great Dave.

 

[SBS Dave]

ONE THE SUBJECT OF PROBLEMS, I AM ALMOST OUT OF STOCK OF 32A COMPACT RCBOs.

In the first week in MAY, I have sold the equivalent of ONE MONTH'S SALES, based on my normal sales levels, which has caught me completely off guard with regard to Compact stocks, especially 32A. I am trying desperately to bring in 32As ahead of my normal stock order, due end of May. I am reasonably OK for the other sizes.

The word is getting around about how good the Compacts are and the increase in Sales is due in some measure to the 9 or so TEF members, who have now become customers.

However, I do have STOCKS OF STANDARD RCBOs, which could hopefully be an acceptable alternative in the short term, as well as being a cheaper option.

I also now have in stock my NEW RANGE OF ENCLOSURES in the ENC-9S, ENC-12S & ENC-18S sizes. It may therefore be an opportunity to try my new boards with the tall Standard RCBOs and any feedback would be welcome.

As of next month, my stock levels will be doubled, in order to accomodate this ongoing demand.

SBS Dave

 

[M107]

Bugger ............thanks for the heads up, I'd better drop in at a customers tonight & have a count up............I shall be placing an order to night Dave.

 

[batty]

Got mine just in time and just paid the invoice cheers Dave.

 

[redman]

Hi,

I`ve just been having a look at these compact RCBOs.

So.......I understand they use a dual busbar, which gets rid of the neutral fly lead.

But....... why doesnt it require an earth fly lead, like the normal size RCBOs ?

Cheers

 

[M107]

My order is in so let me know the cost Dave & payment will be on its way.

 

[Steve3948]

Hi,

I`ve just been having a look at these compact RCBOs.

So.......I understand they use a dual busbar, which gets rid of the neutral fly lead.

But....... why doesnt it require an earth fly lead, like the normal size RCBOs ?

Cheers

Not all RCBO'S single or double require earth fly lead. Some have reference earth in case supply neutral is lost during fault.

 

[Maplasterelec]

Got the new enclosure on Thursday and there is enough room inside for a small family of mice!!! Even with standard rcbo's ther woul be room above them to know where the cables go without disturbing every circuit!! With the compact rcbo there is more space than between Kari price's ears!!!!

Matt

 

[gram1980]

Have to say what great service I've received from Dave, fast delivery of a quality product, I've fitted 1 compact RCBO db & have another 2 coming up this week & they are joy to fit. Loads of head room for cabling, used an MK enclosure first but have gone onto Dave's own enclosure which looks good as well

Needed a spare 16a which Dave shipped out especially at short notice & is on the phone to clarify my orders which I placed by email.

Cheers Dave

 

[SBS Dave]

Hi Redman

There is a lot of speculation about the purpose of functional earths on RCBOs and RCDs and it is difficult to get manufacturers to give a technical answer.

My understanding is, that in the event of a loss of neutral, combined with an earth fault at the same time, the functional earth acts almost like a surrogate neutral, allowing a functional earth current to flow through the neutral coil. Since the live coil senses both the fault current and the FE current, it unbalances and trips out.

The likelihood of both events happening at the same time is so minimal, that there has been a move away from PE connections for RCBOs and RCDs.

If you consider a 17th Edition Board ( not that I want you to consider buying one!!!), the RCD plus an MCB = an RCBO. Since neither the RCD nor the MCB have a functional earth, no neutral loss/fault current is provided. So, if you have been using 17th Edition RCD/MCB combinations, then that should explain why my Compact 2-pole RCBO don't have a FE connection.

SBS Dave

 

[redman]

Thanks for the reply Dave.

That's fair enough.

I can see the logic in what your saying.

I've just never seen an explanation before, from the various manufacturers, for why to use or not to use an earth fly lead.

Cheers

 

[streetlighter]

Im not sure this is correct but I remember reading somewhere that a single pole RCBO will not detect Neutral to Earth faults ?

Also Dave what are the dimensions of the 2 module enclosure if its the right size it could be perfect for what im thinking especialy with a compact douple pole RCBO and a time clock.

Could be ideal for installing in the base of streetlighting columns to feed the sockets for festive lighting displays, I know most councils get a pre build unit from the usual suppliers but there really expensive.

 

[NozSpark]

From what I know they will detect N-E faults,,, however they don't isolate the N

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Im not sure this is correct but I remember reading somewhere that a single pole RCBO will not detect Neutral to Earth faults ?

An RCD by its very nature has to be able to measure the current along the Line and Neutral conductors....

Otherwise it cannot detect an imbalance if only measuring a single conductor.!

So whether the leakage is happening on the Line or Neutral side of the load is irrelevant...

as its the imbalance between Line & Neutral that causes the trip.

So L-E or N-E will always cause an imbalance..

and will trip.

But as Noz said a single pole device will only disconnect the Line not the Neutral, where as a double pole device will disconnect both.

 

[steptoe]

ok, and my take on this would be that under certain circumstances a N-E fault on a SP RCBO could cause a daisy chain effect as the N doesnt disconnect, therefore the fault is still present ,

and,

the earth 'could' sit at 230v potential under certain circumstances,

there is a way this could be proven, but its fairly dangerous so Im not about to describe it on an open forum.

 

[SBS Dave]

Hi Streetlighter,

Your idea sounds interesting and I could come up with a complete unit, if the volume was sufficient , maybe 100 units.

I could house a Compact RCBO plus a 1-module timer in an IP40 enclosure 160 mm H x 50 mm W x 70 mm D.

I believe I could source a 7-day timer with 2hr intervals, 16A rating, that would accept a 6mm cable.

Can you give me an idea of what "really expensive" would be and what a target price price for my product would be?

SBS Dave

 

[streetlighter]

I think the units cost between £160-200 each that's only a rough idea from a chat with a council official a few years back

 

[SBS Dave]

GOOD NEWS - I NOW HAVE ALL SIZES OF COMPACT RCBOs IN STOCK!!!

I pulled out all the stops and got my shipment in record time, so if you were considering Compacts for your next job, why not take the plunge.

Of course, sod's law is working here, because I have just received an unexpected order for 50 x 6A Compacts, but It shouldn't cause a problem.

Streetlighter, do you have a spec on the timer unit?. Does it have a 7-day or 24 hr range and what is the likely inductive load of a typical installation.

Would the timer also need battery reserve backup. I have sourced a 1-module timer with a contact rating of 16A resistive and 4A inductive.

On the face of it, I could do a complete unit, with timer and Compact RCBO in a an enclosure as previously described, for less than £50.00 + VAT.

How many units do you think you could sell at that price?  Please let me know answers to my various questions.

SBS Dave