So 8th June.........

[M107]

Diane Abbott strikes again..............twice in the same week  msl1:

:Sorry: couldn't help it 

 

[apprentice87]

So what's next from the most likely winners of the next election? More tax hikes, indirectly of course. Under Osbourns' amazing plan to balance the books, all local councils are to become self-sufficient by 2020, ie no money from central government

Exactly, and that is what all the dimwits cannot understand. The fact of the matter is, that, if people want public services to exist, they have to be paid for somehow. What sort of village idiot cannot understand that this is what all toe tories are doing, shifting taxes from central government [so they can say they are the party of low taxation] and dumping it onto local councils. This spreads the tax burden unfairly and will give you "rich" areas where the locals, might for example, be able to fund their own care in old age, and "poor" areas, where the locals cannot, and those of working age, presumably also not too well off, will have to try to pay for it all... Ghettos, here we come.

People say about "migrants" and the like, and how people should be tolerant etc.. When it is perceived that the local council cannot afford to run schools etc, because of "migrants" etc, then what will happen....

Where the labour lot have courgetteed up, is that they cannot seem to grasp that the majority of people in this country, in a referendum with a record turnout, chose to leave the EU. Apparently the majority of these people were also labour voters. So what do the labour lot do?? Say that they will block it.... Not the best of moves....

john..

 

[binky]

diiffuclt one that John, half of Labour supporters voted to leave, half didn't. But as the majprity of the half that voted to leave normally can't be bothered to vote at all.....

Personally I think any Brexit negotiations should be across party, and probably involve UKIP, they have after all, been planning Brexit for decades. Either way May is hiding a mandate on Brexit as a mandate to continue previous policies.

 

[apprentice87]

View attachment 8049

john..

 

[apprentice87]

Here is a good one...

Lets see the tory lovers talk their way out of this one then...

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

john...

 

[binky]

very interesting numbers John.

Personally I think we need to borrow to invest in infrastructure projects, such as High Speed Broadband for the entire UK. Unleashing the entreprenural potential of the entire UK will do more to balance the books than anything else I can think of, and may finally bring work back to the old industrial areas.

 

[Murdoch]

I think that instead of propping up RBS, it should have failed.

Then the money that was poured in, and still is could have been used to build Council homes by local people..

 

[Blue Duck]

I think that instead of propping up RBS, it should have failed.

Then the money that was poured in, and still is could have been used to build Council homes by local people..

But how would Kraft have purchased Cadbury without a loan from RBS aka the UK tax payer.

Then they moved it all to Poland, messed  around  with  the  ingredients and we now have the Cadburys Dog egg.

:|

 

[apprentice87]

Exactly... Think of the schools, hospitals, old folks homes etc that could have been built for that kind of money... Also, the 850 BILLION !!! is just what they admit to.. How much was it really..

That kind of money to tango'd banks is just taking the piss.. Think of all the proper industry that could have been created, but they gave it all to a tango'd bank....

john...

 

[binky]

I think that instead of propping up RBS, it should have failed.

Then the money that was poured in, and still is could have been used to build Council homes by local people..

that sounds a bit socilaist for you Murdoch? :slap

We already had Northern Rock, all money could have gone in to that and the rest allowed to fail but with guarantees on people savings

 

[Murdoch]

The cost of housing is going to be the downfall for the political elite..... Something has to change. My kids are teenagers and here in the south the costs to rent or buy are outrageous...

 

[ProDave]

The cost of housing is going to be the downfall for the political elite..... Something has to change. My kids are teenagers and here in the south the costs to rent or buy are outrageous...

I can see both sides of that "issue"

Having previously lived in the SE, I gave up down there 14 years ago, it was just getting so congested I had had enough. Unless you have to live there, I can't see why you would by choice, but plenty do.

But on the cost of housing, one complaint I saw recently was someone complaining that to buy a house the mortgage would consume 1/3 of their income.  Well, when I bought my first house in 1986, my mortgage consumed half my income. So I don't see it's very much different now?

 

[apprentice87]

Ok, so the average house price in the uk is 217,000, so, let us say 180,000 for the sake of argument. For a start off you would need an income of about 60,000 to even get a mortgage on that and the repayments over 25 years would be £968 a month with a £10.000 deposit..

£968 a month over 12 months is £11,616 so to be a third they would have to be earning after tax £34,848

They must be doing rather well.. Think also, that look how much council tax is now compared to what rates were back then. Look at the price of gas and electricity compared to what it was.

I do not know much about housing in the south east, but i know that 180,000 would not go far, unless you wanted to live somewhere dangerous and where there was no work..

Where i live, back in the 1970's there were plenty of people that had ordinary jobs in say the GPO, or the docks, or the steel works, that could afford to buy a house here, and have a car and three kids.

They would not be doing that now.....

Do not forget, that someone that had a mortgage years ago might have struggled a bit at first, BUT and it is a HUGE but, they also had the benefit of inflation.. Now the government goes on about how clever they are for having a low inflation rate [in reality the economy has crahed] anyway, inflation was a great thing for Mr Average. Your mortgage [the biggest outlay and comittment at first] might have been a struggle at first, but within a few years, ten at most, it was laughably cheap.. Now, a person with a 25 year mortgage will be struggling for the entire 25 year term of the thing. Add to this the fact that a lot of people only get the minimum wage, and what about zero hours contracts, and even people like teachers only having one year contracts, and it is a very different thing now, to what it was back then...

john..

 

[Apache]

Personally I think we need to borrow to invest in infrastructure projects, such as High Speed Broadband for the entire UK. Unleashing the entreprenural potential of the entire UK will do more to balance the books than anything else I can think of, and may finally bring work back to the old industrial areas.

you think people waiting for porn to buffer is slowing the economy? I fail to see any economic benefit to superfast broadband.

 

[binky]

Can't imagine it would help with your hand up a cows' backend @Apache :^O   You even got broadband where you live?

In my industrial days, many designs, info, and large documents where sent by e-mail, and broadband speed certainly made a difference. But more improtantly for the rural economy it would allow decent access to sell food produce over interent, shoppers won't wait for site to buffer. and it allows businesses to locate out of cities. From my own persepctive, internet is very useful, for locating data sheets and info whilsy out on site.

for anyone bored with serious discussions, try this....

https://www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf

 

[ProDave]

Ok, so the average house price in the uk is 217,000, so, let us say 180,000 for the sake of argument. For a start off you would need an income of about 60,000 to even get a mortgage on that and the repayments over 25 years would be £968 a month with a £10.000 deposit..

£968 a month over 12 months is £11,616 so to be a third they would have to be earning after tax £34,848

That says it all really.

To get a 180K mortgage you need to be earning £60K and the repayments will be about £1K a month, which is a small fraction of the take home pay on that salary.

Like I said, my mortgage consumed half my take home pay at one point. Yet I didn't think I was hard done by having to sell a decent car to make up the deposit and driving a rusty old banger instead.

It has NEVER been "easy" to buy a house. I recall my father telling me (he paid about £4K for his 3 bed semi) that he could not afford to run a car, he had (pretty normal for the time) a motorbike and sidecar.

The real issue now is not the cost or difficulty buying a house, but the lack of enough council houses at an affordable rent. I can never understand why the receipts of right to buy sales were not put back into building more council houses?

 

[steptoe]

you think people waiting for porn to buffer is slowing the economy?

I'll let you know how it goes once my internet speeds are up a bit,   :Salute

 

[phil d]

It always makes me laugh when they talk about "average wage", recently someone on tv quoted this as being around 35K a year, nobody I know earns that much! My wife works full time and earns less than 20K as do most of the people I know.

I think a lot of the problems in this country were caused by successive governments carrying out asset stripping, the electric was sold off, now say for arguments sake this brought in a million pounds a year. Say it was sold for 3 million, people in government were congratulating each other, "hey look we've just made 3 million", trouble was next year they were a million short in the coffers, "oh yeah, we sold the 'leccy" they needed to make up the shortfall so they flogged the gas off, next it was the water, then the phones, and so it continued, and each year they ended up even shorter on the budget, greed and short term profit overtook common sense and forward planning!

Our roads were in a right state, I rang the council to complain, "we've no money in the pot for road repairs" was the reply, I asked how they could afford to plant trees along the roadside, trees that will eventually be removed as a safety hazard, "that's from a different pot" came the reply! What utter rubbish, there should be one pot and the important things done first before the un-necessary stuff. Imagine if you were self employed and didn't pay your tax, "I'm awfully sorry mr taxman, there's no money in the pot for you this year, Ah yes I know I've booked 3 foreign holidays, but that's from a different pot" , what do you think would happen next?

Councils were no better, they sold the housing stock, those that didn't came up with other elaborate scams! Our local authority announced they were selling the housing stock to a "social landlord" , in reality it's a scam, this so called "independent social landlord" also carries out a lot of other work that would normally be done by the council, work on private estates etc, in fact they are responsible for the alley gates all over the borough.

A few years ago they came up with a "shared ownership scheme" to help young people get on the property ladder, the properties were 150K each and for a third share you had to put down 50k then pay something like £75 a week rent. which young person has 50K lying about to put down? If they got a 50K mortgage, the repayments of that coupled with £75 a week rent would cripple most youngsters, and that's before you add things like council tax, utility bills and everything else.

 

[apprentice87]

To get a 180K mortgage you need to be earning £60K and the repayments will be about £1K a month, which is a small fraction of the take home pay on that salary.

Yes, but my point was, you were comparing the past with now. So let us say i am a properly qualified 25 year old electrician, working for a large firm with a secure job so that a lender will give me a mortgage. What is the chance that i will be earning £60,000??? Err, none i would think, so the point is, i would not be getting the mortgage in the first place..

The real issue now is not the cost or difficulty buying a house, but the lack of enough council houses at an affordable rent. I can never understand why the receipts of right to buy sales were not put back into building more council houses?

Because thatcher the halfwit would not allow it. Councils were forced to just sit on the money. They were desperate in some places to use the money to build more houses, but it was simply not allowed. So far as i know, the idea was that the councils could only spend the money on other things, so that central government could give them less and hence boast that they were the "party of low taxation" Bit like selling your house and using the money to go on holiday..

john..

 

[phil d]

Yes, but my point was, you were comparing the past with now. So let us say i am a properly qualified 25 year old electrician, working for a large firm with a secure job so that a lender will give me a mortgage. What is the chance that i will be earning £60,000??? Err, none i would think, so the point is, i would not be getting the mortgage in the first place..

Because thatcher the halfwit would not allow it. Councils were forced to just sit on the money. They were desperate in some places to use the money to build more houses, but it was simply not allowed. So far as i know, the idea was that the councils could only spend the money on other things, so that central government could give them less and hence boast that they were the "party of low taxation" Bit like selling your house and using the money to go on holiday..

john..

Budgets have always been a problem, underspend this year and they hammer you next year, it's not just a case of " we gave you 100k last year and you only spent 90, so this year we'll give you 90k," Oh no they have to go better, "you had 100k last year and only spent 90k so this year we'll give you 80k" . The problem is there are times when you need more money than other times, but they don't see this. It's like running a home, you do basic maintenance every year, but you keep a little saved up for major expenses, you don't replace a boiler or freezer or washer every year, but you need a few quid saved up for when you have to, trouble is nobody thinks of this and successive governments kept reducing budgets, now there's not enough money for the basics, let alone anything else.