or socialism at work
So will the ICE be banned or not?
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or socialism at work
socialism? More like offloading work to the private sector so they can reduce the civil service, offer tax cuts, but costs us all more money running systems for them unpaid in my opinion.
PaulieN
Well-known member
Hmm... now that sounds a lot like crony capitalism!
Yep, smoke and mirrors. Easiest way to reduce the number if civil servants needed would be to simplfy the tax system, oh, and cut out all the tax exemptions and loopholes. In my opinion, this would also make it far harder to fiddle taxes, but that's another long debate.
Losing votes to the minority EV holders isn't a big risk.
They are already gullible enough to buy the things.
Prove the gullibility if you can, you keep repeating this so time to produce your evidence.
Why do I have to prove something that you keep saying is fact.?
Like the other thread, you, and others purport hearsay as fact,
I don't have to prove anything, you have to prove your claims as fact,
Did Amber Heard teach you nothing,?
More gaslighting *****. Put up or shut up, if you can.
Petrol etc will NEVER EVER be banned.. Seen any oil companies sweating lately?? Thought not.. If they thought electric anything would take over they would simply buy the companies producing this **** and close them down. Money rules the world, and the oil companies [thank god] have more than most..
john..
john..
True , oil is not going to disappear overnight, if ever. The oil companies spent a lot of money buying technology and sitting on it. They have developed some things, eg Shell used to make solar panels, but I suspect they have stifled a lot of potential competition to oil.
King Arthur
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I can't see oil etc being banned as such, but I can forsee it becoming obsolete as a source of energy, which is what our complex and luxurious standard of living is reliant upon.
We're fortunate to be living at the exact time (ok, 150-200 years) during which we discovered the 'hidden hoard' of abundant and cheap energy we call fossil fuels. It took millions of years to accumulate this stored energy windfall (just another form of stored solar energy really) but it has only taken us about 200 years to plunder this amazing resource and power our society to previously unimaginable heights.
We've already consumed pretty much all the 'easy pickings' and it's now more and more costly and complex to extract the remaining reserves. I've read that when oil was first discovered it required the energy equivalent of around 1 barrel of oil to extract 20 barrels - a pretty good return by any standards. But that was when the stuff just seeped out of the ground. These days (so I've read) this ratio for new wells in hostile places (eg deep water offshore) is nearer to 2:1, ie in energy terms it 'costs' one barrel of oil to extract two barrels.
When this ration gets to 1:1 then fossil fuels cease to be a viable sourrce of energy, even though there may still be plenty in the ground. Fossil fuels will remain a valuable 'mineral' resource but they will no longer be an 'energy' resource.
So yes, you'll still be able to buy petrol to run your ICE but it will be an expensive option compared to other technolgies available, in much the same way that using horses for transport and haulage is no longer economic, or using steam vehicles. None of those things are banned, they are simply no longer economically viable and have become the sole preserve of those who like a bit of nostalgia and are willing to pay through the nose for the priviledge of riding a steam train or maintaining a horse and carriage.
If there is one thing that human beings are very bad at, it's predicting the future. Yet even those of us alive today will be able to remember unprecedented social and technological changes in our own lifetimes. Just one example - VCRs were astonishingly complex bits of technology yet in their heyday they were affordable by almost everyone and they revolutionised TV viewing and distribution habits. How long did they last? 20 years, 30 years? We can debate the exact figure but there's no doubt they are now history. Same with CDs, film cameras and loads more examples.
My own favourite example is digital electronics. Basically, I spent my working life in an industry that didn't even exist when I was at school and for which I received no formal education! It was so lucrative that I could delay starting work until 22 (doing a dgree in a totally unrelated subject) and could afford to retire at 50. That's just 28 years spent working for a living - that would be unimaginable to our ancestors.
Things move faster than we tend to imagine and often in ways we never saw coming until it is too late.
We're fortunate to be living at the exact time (ok, 150-200 years) during which we discovered the 'hidden hoard' of abundant and cheap energy we call fossil fuels. It took millions of years to accumulate this stored energy windfall (just another form of stored solar energy really) but it has only taken us about 200 years to plunder this amazing resource and power our society to previously unimaginable heights.
We've already consumed pretty much all the 'easy pickings' and it's now more and more costly and complex to extract the remaining reserves. I've read that when oil was first discovered it required the energy equivalent of around 1 barrel of oil to extract 20 barrels - a pretty good return by any standards. But that was when the stuff just seeped out of the ground. These days (so I've read) this ratio for new wells in hostile places (eg deep water offshore) is nearer to 2:1, ie in energy terms it 'costs' one barrel of oil to extract two barrels.
When this ration gets to 1:1 then fossil fuels cease to be a viable sourrce of energy, even though there may still be plenty in the ground. Fossil fuels will remain a valuable 'mineral' resource but they will no longer be an 'energy' resource.
So yes, you'll still be able to buy petrol to run your ICE but it will be an expensive option compared to other technolgies available, in much the same way that using horses for transport and haulage is no longer economic, or using steam vehicles. None of those things are banned, they are simply no longer economically viable and have become the sole preserve of those who like a bit of nostalgia and are willing to pay through the nose for the priviledge of riding a steam train or maintaining a horse and carriage.
If there is one thing that human beings are very bad at, it's predicting the future. Yet even those of us alive today will be able to remember unprecedented social and technological changes in our own lifetimes. Just one example - VCRs were astonishingly complex bits of technology yet in their heyday they were affordable by almost everyone and they revolutionised TV viewing and distribution habits. How long did they last? 20 years, 30 years? We can debate the exact figure but there's no doubt they are now history. Same with CDs, film cameras and loads more examples.
My own favourite example is digital electronics. Basically, I spent my working life in an industry that didn't even exist when I was at school and for which I received no formal education! It was so lucrative that I could delay starting work until 22 (doing a dgree in a totally unrelated subject) and could afford to retire at 50. That's just 28 years spent working for a living - that would be unimaginable to our ancestors.
Things move faster than we tend to imagine and often in ways we never saw coming until it is too late.
number plates nicked... police are looking for a bloke called Reg.
Just looked on Autotrader. 10 year old Nissan Leaf, about £5k. range - 25-40 miles. And that will drop with increased use making it pretty much worthless anytime soon. Will stick to my 15 year old BMW - puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.
Just looked on Autotrader. 10 year old Nissan Leaf, about £5k. range - 25-40 miles. And that will drop with increased use making it pretty much worthless anytime soon. Will stick to my 15 year old BMW - puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.
those early EVs were pretty useless, but if you only drive to the shops and back it's all you need.
PaulieN
Well-known member
The first Leaf only had a range of 80 or so miles at best to begin with. Then most early Leafs were used incorrectly by legacy thinking on batteries. Owners would charge them up to 100% after each use thinking this was best practice, as it would have been if you were dealing with good old lead acid. Unfortunately this pretty much guarantees a degraded battery capacity with lithium.
I actually still have an EV I built using the AESC cells as used in the Leaf from way back in 2011. As I manage them, the cell packs only see 10% to 90% SOC use, although it's seldom used these days, so usually gets left at around 50% (the best place for lithium when not in regular use). Still at 95% capacity after 11 years by doing this!
Thankfully, newer EV's are far less susceptible to degradation than the early Leafs where, with better BMS buffers keeping batteries further away from upper and lower states of charge. Better thermal management through liquid cooling too, the Leaf was only passively cooled so suffered badly in hotter climes.
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still not convinced its £30k well spent
for me it isn't currently, but mostly because I don't need another vehicle, and live in a terraced house. The wifes little Nissan does hardly any miles, and when we do eventually get rid of that, that's when I would consider buying an EV or hybrid. That won't be for about 5-10 years, by which time we will hopefully have far better batteries, and far more high speed charging points at supermarkets and the like.
PaulieN
Well-known member
I agree with you, and as in your case, running a nicely kept 15 year old car is perfectly acceptable in my book. It will be a while yet before older, lower cost, decent range EVs work thier way down to cater for a broader demographic of affordability. This is fine for now and I think the ban on new ICE sales from 2030 allows for this to happen.
Those I I do very much take issue with though are the significant number of people who are still buying £40k to £50k and upward new cars every 3 years, by whatever funding method, yet still choosing the dirty none EV option, as in this higher priced segment there are now lots of long range, and frankly superior to drive in all aspects, electrics available.
status symbol Chelsea tractors you mean
Oddly enough I have recently installed a pair of 7kW charging pillars at a block of holiday flats in Salcombe, it would seem the Range Rover drivers are considering chucking those in favour of EVs, probably Teslas, as these seem to be a popular replacement for Range Rovers.
Banning sales of new ICEs is one thing, getting 20 + million off the road is a huge challenge
think I’ll buy a new ish ICE in a couple of years and that will see put my likely motoring life as long as it’s looked after
think I’ll buy a new ish ICE in a couple of years and that will see put my likely motoring life as long as it’s looked after
tesla are the new **** drivers choice, replacing BMW, range rover etc.status symbol Chelsea tractors you mean
Oddly enough I have recently installed a pair of 7kW charging pillars at a block of holiday flats in Salcombe, it would seem the Range Rover drivers are considering chucking those in favour of EVs, probably Teslas, as these seem to be a popular replacement for Range Rovers.
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