STROMA

[OnOff]

Afternoon, does anyone know what certification STROMA require to join their Part P ("CPS") scheme i.e. the 17th etc. I have been on their site but other than the

 

[steptoe]

I'll have a look now onoff, I have the pack here.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was made at 17:29 ----------

 

[OnOff]

I'll have a look now onoff, I have the pack here.

Thanks. Just negotiating a buy to let property. Needs a new CU etc. With the local BCO wanting

 

[steptoe]

do you have GN3 & EAWR?

you will also need a copy of the building regs part P

 

[OnOff]

do you have GN3 & EAWR?you will also need a copy of the building regs part P

Yes I have those, though Guidance Note 3 is the only "bought" one. Part P and the EAWR are both downloaded off the .gov.uk portals. They are though printed and "professionally" bound (at work) and look the part. Presume that will suffice.

Interesting that I phoned the BCO this afternoon as the house I'm looking to buy to let comes under another council to where I live. This lot (Dartford) want

 

[NozSpark]

You can use electronic copies if you like,,,, I do for everything except for 7671, onsite guide, GN1 and GN3

 

[Evans Electric]

From what I can see , Stroma doesn't cover Part P .

Seems to do E...L.. and some more can't see anything to do with P.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[steptoe]

there you go Deke

Stroma - CPS Competent Person Schemes | Certification and Training

 

[monkey5]

so anyone with stroma? are a bit cheaper that elesca so might be worth changing.

wayne

 

[steptoe]

Im going that route very soon,

after looking at all the options and getting their bumf sent out I cant see any reason why not to,

unless of course you do work for folks that require you to be napit, niceic, elecsa or whatever.

 

[monkey5]

let us know how you get on steps. the "name" makes no difference to me really as hardly anyone i work for has heard of Part P or any scheme members so whether its stroma, elecsa or mickey mouse clubhouse as long as its notified and i can give the customer all paper work needed. i can sleep well.

wayne

 

[steptoe]

Wayne, same here mate,

its only to make my life a lot simpler for CU changes and the odd shower that I do, so for me its all about cost,

heck, one private landlord Ive recently been doing work for was amazed when I did a PIR for him and gave him a proper cert,

apparently his last spark just printed a letter off stating everything was OK.!

 

[streetlighter]

Seems to me the only scheme provider that actually promote the part P regulations to the public is the NICEIC the others don't advertise themselves much other than in trade publications.

Most of my clients haven't herd of part P and they just want it doing cheap when I explain about earthing and bonding need to be upto scratch and RCD protection they don't care.

I've lost many jobs because of this

 

[OnOff]

Im going that route very soon,after looking at all the options and getting their bumf sent out I cant see any reason why not to,

unless of course you do work for folks that require you to be napit, niceic, elecsa or whatever.

I seem to remember reading somewhere (on a forum I think) of letting agents or similar who specifically ask for NICEIC affiliation and cases of them not accepting anything else. It seems a case of maybe NICEIC being the best known - like "Hoover" means vacuum cleaner! On top of that I'm sure that there is some sort of circular available that you can present to the agent explaining about the various competent persons schemes in order to "put them right". Not sure though if it's something that you get from the other bodies (ELECSA, NAPIT etc). I would think if a letting / estate agent refused your non NICEIC paperwork then it could be deemed anti competitive under competition law. What I suppose I'm getting at is can they legally refuse non NICEIC certs and if they do, do they risk falling foul of the above laws?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I seem to remember reading somewhere (on a forum I think) of letting agents or similar who specifically ask for NICEIC affiliation and cases of them not accepting anything else. It seems a case of maybe NICEIC being the best known - like "Hoover" means vacuum cleaner! On top of that I'm sure that there is some sort of circular available that you can present to the agent explaining about the various competent persons schemes in order to "put them right". Not sure though if it's something that you get from the other bodies (ELECSA, NAPIT etc). I would think if a letting / estate agent refused your non NICEIC paperwork then it could be deemed anti competitive under competition law. What I suppose I'm getting at is can they legally refuse non NICEIC certs and if they do, do they risk falling foul of the above laws?

Complete tosh and waffle I am afraid ...

The landlord can refuse whatever he or she chooses when selecting someone to work for them...

Is it any wonder Sparks keep moaning they are undervalued and or are struggling to get jobs....

When they still struggle with the basics of how a free business economy works... :C

Let me explain this again even though it has been covered loads of times on the forum...

a golden rule of business:-

THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT...

example 1:-

If Mrs Spigot wants to buy her 'Warburtons' bread from 'Sainsburys'.....

that is her free choice to spend her money where she wants to...

Employees of 'Tescos' or 'Hovis' cannot moan that Mrs Spigot doesn't use their shop or buy their bread!

and the little sole trader grocery store cannot moan either!

example 2:-

If Mr Spigot wants to employ an NICEIC contractor who only drives a Ford transit and wears Green overalls...

To do some work (PIR, alteration, rewire etc..) on his second property that he rents out...

that is his free choice to spend his money where he wants to...

Members of other contractor bodies, or NIC members who drive VW transporters, or who have Blue overalls..

cannot moan about what or how Mr Spigot chooses to spend his own money!!!

3 Key point to remember:-

a) Customer spends his or her money how they want to

B) Any legal duties or responsibilities due to the work carried out must be correctly followed,

and all bodies involved must act appropriately and fairly...

c) Purchasing work and Notifying work are two different things

They are NOT the same

It is the bit c) that dim sparks get confused with...... headbang

i.e...

Any part-p compliant electrical work must be notified by one of the approved methods....

If self certifying work an electrical contractor must issue the appropriate electrical certificate...

Providing the certification is in accordance with BS7671

and the contractor is a member of one of the approved self cert scheme bodies...

Then an LABC cannot refuse to accept an EIC / MWC certificate from that contractor whether it is on

logoed paper, non-logoed paper, loo paper, type written, hand written, pink and flowery ... etc.. etc..

Any person purchasing anything can chose whatever requirements they consider appropriate....

If one brand of anything is more popular (and or better promoted) than another brand

that is what we call a free market.....

You will all make your choices how you spend your money and which scheme's you want to join or not....

Other customers can do the same with their choices..

Cheapest is not always the best value for money!!!

:coffee

As a side issue...

I'm sure that there is some sort of circular available that you can present to the agent explaining about the various competent persons schemes in order to "put them right".

This point has been mentioned loads of times by various members..

and this is not a dig at you onoff.. just a comment on this specific point...

Any "electrician" who cannot explain the concept of the various schemes and legal responsibilities to any prospective customer...

and needs a 'covering letter' ...

in all honesty would probably struggle to write a coherent report about a fault or problem or the options for some quoted work..

And thus is probably not yet competent enough to be working alone!

 

[Stevie h]

I'm going stroma too ..... The scam providers are charging a lot for a little,

 

[OnOff]

Complete tosh and waffle I am afraid ... The landlord can refuse whatever he or she chooses when selecting someone to work for them...

Is it any wonder Sparks keep moaning they are undervalued and or are struggling to get jobs....

When they still struggle with the basics of how a free business economy works... :C

Let me explain this again even though it has been covered loads of times on the forum...

a golden rule of business:-

THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT...

example 1:-

If Mrs Spigot wants to buy her 'Warburtons' bread from 'Sainsburys'.....

that is her free choice to spend her money where she wants to...

Employees of 'Tescos' or 'Hovis' cannot moan that Mrs Spigot doesn't use their shop or buy their bread!

and the little sole trader grocery store cannot moan either!

example 2:-

If Mr Spigot wants to employ an NICEIC contractor who only drives a Ford transit and wears Green overalls...

To do some work (PIR, alteration, rewire etc..) on his second property that he rents out...

that is his free choice to spend his money where he wants to...

Members of other contractor bodies, or NIC members who drive VW transporters, or who have Blue overalls..

cannot moan about what or how Mr Spigot chooses to spend his own money!!!

3 Key point to remember:-

a) Customer spends his or her money how they want to

B) Any legal duties or responsibilities due to the work carried out must be correctly followed,

and all bodies involved must act appropriately and fairly...

c) Purchasing work and Notifying work are two different things

They are NOT the same

It is the bit c) that dim sparks get confused with...... headbang

i.e...

Any part-p compliant electrical work must be notified by one of the approved methods....

If self certifying work an electrical contractor must issue the appropriate electrical certificate...

Providing the certification is in accordance with BS7671

and the contractor is a member of one of the approved self cert scheme bodies...

Then an LABC cannot refuse to accept an EIC / MWC certificate from that contractor whether it is on

logoed paper, non-logoed paper, loo paper, type written, hand written, pink and flowery ... etc.. etc..

Any person purchasing anything can chose whatever requirements they consider appropriate....

If one brand of anything is more popular (and or better promoted) than another brand

that is what we call a free market.....

You will all make your choices how you spend your money and which scheme's you want to join or not....

Other customers can do the same with their choices..

Cheapest is not always the best value for money!!!

:coffee

As a side issue...

This point has been mentioned loads of times by various members..

and this is not a dig at you onoff.. just a comment on this specific point...

Any "electrician" who cannot explain the concept of the various schemes and legal responsibilities to any prospective customer...

and needs a 'covering letter' ...

in all honesty would probably struggle to write a coherent report about a fault or problem or the options for some quoted work..

And thus is probably not yet competent enough to be working alone!

Judging from the essay above I'm guessing I didn't explain myself clearly! I WAS alluding to the, in some circles, opinion that the NICEIC is the only body who can do anything electrical. I say this from experience as when I first started renting out property I approached a letting agent to find a suitable tenant. Being "new" to the whole landlord game I enquired about what checks were needed in terms of gas & electrical safety. Pretty much to a word the comment was "You'll need an NIC inspection!". As it was then I did have an NICEIC contractor carry out the PIR (and British Gas 3 Star Cover) for the protection of my tenants.

I'm well aware that anyone paying for a service can choose who they want. I should have perhaps said about people such as letting agents "not recognising" anyone other than your lot!

Agreed the cheapest is not always the best but then where do the higher fees go? I don't think that STROMA are holding a 2012 Golf Classic?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Agreed the cheapest is not always the best but then where do the higher fees go? I don't think that STROMA are holding a 2012 Golf Classic?

Hmm????

Firstly I will point out that, I do not play golf and I have no interest in golf...

But I cannot see any issues with any organisation running any sporting event they consider appropriate..

As for funding... I guess there is a level of naivety again about a use of members fees...

Remember...

It is standard business practice to promote an organisation or body and/or to do special events, functions, quizzes, competitions, or sponsor a sports event / concert etc...

(from forum comments it would appear that NICEIC are better than most at promotion)

As a general rule good business practice means these events are designed to be 'Self Funding'

as such if they are not successful they do not drain vast sums from the main business organising the event...

I would guess that a vast majority.. if not all ... of the costs for this event come from OTHER SPONSORSHIP.. + entry fees..

looking here

Win a trip to Archerfield Links in Scotland at NICEIC Golf Classic 2012

I can see 12 other businesses sponsoring this event....

and by the looks of it each person entering has to pay

 

[OnOff]

Hmm????Firstly I will point out that, I do not play golf and I have no interest in golf...

But I cannot see any issues with any organisation running any sporting event they consider appropriate..

As for funding... I guess there is a level of naivety again about a use of members fees...

Remember...

It is standard business practice to promote an organisation or body and/or to do special events, functions, quizzes, competitions, or sponsor a sports event / concert etc...

(from forum comments it would appear that NICEIC are better than most at promotion)

As a general rule good business practice means these events are designed to be 'Self Funding'

as such if they are not successful they do not drain vast sums from the main business organising the event...

I would guess that a vast majority.. if not all ... of the costs for this event come from OTHER SPONSORSHIP.. + entry fees..

looking here

Win a trip to Archerfield Links in Scotland at NICEIC Golf Classic 2012

I can see 12 other businesses sponsoring this event....

and by the looks of it each person entering has to pay

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I GIVE UP, YOU WIN! Of course if I go with STROMA I'll still be using the nice NICEIC pen that Tony Cable gave me along with the Domestic Electrical Installation Guide book, Pocket Guide cards, free magazine and very attractive carrier bag that it all came in..................that your fee's went towards paying for!

I am not out to win anything, I have no issues with anyone joining any scheme they want to ..

My posts had merely being replying to your questions and implications that somehow there was breach of fair competition or some unspoken monopoly...

I would think if a letting / estate agent refused your non NICEIC paperwork then it could be deemed anti competitive under competition law. What I suppose I'm getting at is can they legally refuse non NICEIC certs and if they do, do they risk falling foul of the above laws?

This is a concept that many electricians think is fact,

for the sake of younger members reading the forums I had tried to clearly explain the legal responsibilities of the purchasing and notifying of work...

I am more than happy for you to advertise NICEIC by using their free products, the few pence they cost to print or manufacture will not be breaking anyones piggy bank...

Free pens and magazines etc are normal practice in the industry...

Go see what freebies the wholesalers like chucking out when they are on a promotion spree...

If no-one trys to balance the opinions on some threads, we will just keep churning more and more myths out around the electrical world.

:coffee