The demise of the professional electrician?

[Dave Buchan]

Hi Guys,

I'm just after a bit feedback with regard to current members job status and job opportunities available nationwide. I've been currently fully self employed now for over 3 years but before deciding to take the plunge I used to work either cards in or self employed (labour only). Based in Newcastle I've met some fantastic people and characters on my travels but seemed to notice a trend a few years ago (mainly on building construction sites and domestic works) where it now seems cost effective for employers to semi-skill the majority of the electrical workforce. With the big sites carrying a handful of supervision to monitor the semi-skilled electrical mates and a few 2391 testers to accept full legal responsibility for signing off the electrical installation the client now seems to be the only person who is benefitting from this current pandemic sweeping across the north east at present. Which brings me to my next question; As continous professional development seems the buzz word at the moment and many professional electricians have many safety courses, content and exams continually thrust upon them, what seems to be the point as you can't compete with a man or women who's just bought a toolbox from B&Q, gets a government grant to complete their training and is just grateful for a wage?

I have a few good colleagues who i've met over the years who have probably forgot more than I'll ever know, who can't seem to get a job because an electricians mate is supposedly more cost effective. I've also had a friend (JIB Approved Electrician) who has had to accept an electricians mates pay just to get off the dole.

What I'd really like to know is if this phenomenom is just based across the north east or if it is nationwide?

I've stopped paying my union dues some time ago as it's been amalgamated that many times they've really forgot about who they're supposed to represent.

With the JIB designed by EMPLOYERS for EMPLOYERS and with todays current economic climate and every business struggling to survive ,will the status of a professional electrician keep getting sacrificed for semi-skilled labour until they cease to exist?

 

[green-hornet]

You have raised a very good question, the use of a semi skilled workforce is not new however in years past there was always a fully skilled electrician working with a mate or improver. The loss of proper apprenticeships has obviously meant a change in working practice (few people have the time or want to do a full course).

To keep competitive in any downturn requires you to slim line your work force this does have its drawbacks, very few semi skilled unless they have been in the trade for ages know how to work from drawings, and you get fully skilled sinking back boxes and other manual jobs. I do not think its just in your area I would say it is nationwide.

There is a demise in the skilled and appreciated electrician, as there always has been.

For instance I am currently working on two working mans clubs both have been rewired by committee members and both are a shambles and incorrectly certified.

One was carried out by an odd job man who did everything including the gas boiler, the other by a so called electrical contractor who had to get another contractor in to certify.

There was so many code 1 and code 2 that I would have sued him never mind pay him, but that is what we are up against.

 

[Evans Electric]

Way -Hey Bonnie lad , welcome to the Forum .

What you describe doesn't surprise me although I've not come across it . As regards the Union , I was a member for years (ETU) then (EEPTU) until you realise that they don't give a $hite about contracting sparks , only industrial maintenance sparks and power workers. (Ever known contractors on strike?)

Cheap semi skilled labour is an attraction to the bean counters I suppose.

The big change is fast tracking older guys through the college courses and calling them sparks . On saying that , I don't blame guys who are trying to learn a skilled trade but it all seems a bit quick to me , and the training seems dedicated to domestic work.

 

[batty]

Totally agree with GH on this. I am seeing more and more bad work as said a few weeks back went to a property TT earth system with earth loop of around 30ohms with standard 16th edition board so all lighting and few other circuits had no RCD protection. Now this was supposed to have been done by a napit contractor last year. He gave previous owner a certificate but really did not have a clue about the work he has done. I can understand if this was done by a diyer but someone that is in the electrical trade it frightens me.

 

[Voltimax]

Totally agree with GH on this. I am seeing more and more bad work as said a few weeks back went to a property TT earth system with earth loop of around 30ohms with standard 16th edition board so all lighting and few other circuits had no RCD protection. Now this was supposed to have been done by a napit contractor last year. He gave previous owner a certificate but really did not have a clue about the work he has done. I can understand if this was done by a diyer but someone that is in the electrical trade it frightens me.

Ahh, but as it turned out he wasn't a Napit approved sparks though was he batty

 

[batty]

Ahh, but as it turned out he wasn't a Napit approved sparks though was he batty

Seems not just a liar.

 

[initforthemoney]

Good job we dont need a tin opener.

 

[binky]

De-skilling work is an issue across all professions, and in all industries. When I worked in manufacturing, promoting barely educated supervisors to 'Engineers' was popular (never mind the number of people given engineer as a job title, completly devalueing its worth) and cost one young man a crushed hand due to incorrectly designed safety guard. Within the social work profession every numbty care worker in a children's home called themselves a social worker. It took the deaths of quite a few children to force the powers that be not to recognise anyone as a social worker unless fully qualified and registered - the numbties are now called care workers.

Imho unless sparks and other trades go the same way, and return status to the fully qualified, then the demise will continue. Having more than registration body doesn't help either.

 

[Tooold]

I hope the sparks being paid as a labourer only works to labourer levels!

I was also in the union for many years, I was a new start on a job that had a dispute, naturally I didnt want to work the other new spark not in the union was reluctant and fair play to management they sent us to the tea room until rep turned up. What an arrogant pig he was no use or help to either side. Stopped my dues very soon after.

On the other topic I lost a small pat testing job today offered to do it for min charge then dropped it down for cash, it was on way home, to pat test 4 4 way leads some skilled person!? is charging

 

[Mayagirl]

I've been out of the industry for a while; so forgive my question about what must be well known to some of you.

And no intended offence to people who have trained up recently; some are extremely skilled and talented.

When and why did the 4 or 5 year apprenticeships stop?

At the time...how was it justified that (whatever new system was brought in) the country would have enough skilled trades 5 and 10 and 15 years down the line?

I have my 16 year old Godson wanting to get a skilled trade that he can rely on for life; and perhaps take around the world, and as far as I can see...he's supposed to find a few thousand pounds and do a 5 week course.

Is it that there are much fewer traditional apprenticeships now; or have they been completely phased out by these short courses?

 

[binky]

It's called lack of re-investment, and undermining standards to suite those who wish to make more

 

[Evans Electric]

Also the change in our trade from a contractor having a fully employed labour force to using subbies only, with no place or even interest in taking on apprentices .

No redundancy problems with subbies, no holiday pay, no pension scheme, no supplying transport etc.

Our trade began to follow the building trade in the late 1970s .

 

[philbas]

From the other point of view.

Plenty of people here that have done the 5 day course, the one year course etc.

We all know that what we lack is experience,

BUTT

No where to get it, anyone out there offerring an apprentiship.

Let alone an adult apperentiship.

Personnaly I will work for peanuts to get some experience, but I can't give my service away for free.

So dont complain about a decline in standards when you are not prepared to stand up and offer the means for the standards you want to see to be achived.

Rant over

 

[Evans Electric]

I wasn't complaining , Philbas, just pointing out the massive changes that have taken place . Many of the big contractors have dissapeared also, there must have been 50 apprentices at the firm I worked for . There were huge projects going on , city centre being knocked down and rebuilt, tracks installed at car assembly plants, a lot that don't exist today, Austin/Rover , Jaguar, Land Rover, Standard Triumph, Peugeot , Morris Commercial , the train makers Metro Camell , its endless.

I would guess that hardly any Forum members actually employ anyone , speaking for myself , I hardly make a living myself over the last two years, two other sparks will join me on jobs occasionally ,but on a self employed basis, I couldn't posibly employ anyone .

 

[philbas]

I wasnt really complaing either

But I do get a bit annoyed when people complain that they can't get time served people (in any trade), when they are not prepared to offer jobs for people to get the time.

I think most people who have the exams but lack the experience would prefer to grab a job, but the jobs are not there, so you can't really blame them for thinking "sod it" ill go for it and setting up on there own.

I think these forums produce plenty of evidence that the want to do it the correct way, thats why we all ask questions.

And I think we are all gratefull for those , like yourself that do take the time out to answer,

 

[Evans Electric]

OOOOh thats cheered me up no end :Blushing I'll go and make the wife a cuppa !! May be back later.

 

[philbas]

I take 2 sugars

 

[steptoe]

I've been out of the industry for a while; so forgive my question about what must be well known to some of you.And no intended offence to people who have trained up recently; some are extremely skilled and talented.

When and why did the 4 or 5 year apprenticeships stop?

people just think there is a quick buck to be made

At the time...how was it justified that (whatever new system was brought in) the country would have enough skilled trades 5 and 10 and 15 years down the line?

I have my 16 year old Godson wanting to get a skilled trade that he can rely on for life; and perhaps take around the world, and as far as I can see...he's supposed to find a few thousand pounds and do a 5 week course.

make him serve his time and be a real man, not a wannabe

Is it that there are much fewer traditional apprenticeships now; or have they been completely phased out by these short courses?

I wasnt really complaing either But I do get a bit annoyed when people complain that they can't get time served people (in any trade), when they are not prepared to offer jobs for people to get the time.

I think most people who have the exams but lack the experience would prefer to grab a job, but the jobs are not there, so you can't really blame them for thinking "sod it" ill go for it and setting up on there own.

I think these forums produce plenty of evidence that the want to do it the correct way, thats why we all ask questions.

And I think we are all gratefull for those , like yourself that do take the time out to answer,

Im sorry,

but most of them are a total ****ing danger and just greedy *******s

I personally know guys expecting to get money in the region of

 

[kme]

I can see all sides in this, and understand the issues.

I`ve recently been approached by a 20+ yr old lad, was on an apprenticeship, but was laid off between doing his 2391 course & exam - so no qual there....

He has CG236 and 2381, and I am currently taking him part time (cash) as he has a part time job 3 days aweek (non-electrical).

In 2 weks I`m doing the *** solar course, and expecting a LOT of work from it - he`s prepared to come "on the books", with possibly another "decent" sparx (if I can find one!)......I`ll put him through 2391 if he carries on as well as he has started off; I have no problem with him.

Although I am sure some of the NVQ guys are more than capable, I must say that, from personal experience, I`ve never met one I`d trust to do a job on his own (and THAT, as a self-employed tradesman, is the mantra you need to be singing).

Sadly, we`ve become "americanised" - it`s all about the money. Screw "job satisfaction"; or the idea that "If it needs to be done, it needs to be done RIGHT"; "How cheap are you"? is the only thing that seems to matter, to most employers / customers.

Maybe I`m lucky - A lot of my customers ask

a) can I do the job?

B) when can I do the job?

Not " How much to do xxxxxxxxxx"?

They`re a dying breed, as, I believe, are Electricians.

The world, and the people inhabiting it, are changing. Some may think "for the better"; I believe different. But the changes are there: We either adapt, or become insignificant.

I would prefer to grow into the new age; and carve my niche within it, rather than wait to be buried by the sand of change.

~ramble~ over......

KME

 

[Evans Electric]

[quote name=kme

I would prefer to grow into the new age; and carve my niche within it' date=' rather than wait to be buried by the sand of change.

~ramble~ over......

KME

Fine Churchillian sentiments from KME there , give up sparkying and become a political speech writer .

Never in field of electrical contracting ,have so many rules and regs been imposed on so many by so few. :Salute