To Regs & Best Practice ?

[Murdoch]

Haha. How do you know I'm not already paying double what you charge..

I wouldn’t be queueing up to work for you …..

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

As a property developer imo i guess it depends on where the cables are.

I wouldn't allow my sparky to run horizontal cables in any other rooms than the kitchen or utility. And even in these areas where possible return below a base unit and back up to the socket.

In most other rooms sockets are generally much nearer the floor...
So in many situations dropping vertically down, run along below floor, then back up again is a perfectly logical and sensible approach...

However.. if it is a concrete floor.. Running vertically up a wall, across above the ceiling void then back down the wall to another socket on the same wall is daft, expensive, and more likely to be at risk of someone banging a nail through the cable...
Whereas horizontally between sockets in this situation is the best solution for safety, practicality, cost effectiveness etc..

Horizontal runs are common place in surface runs e.g. sheds, workshops, garages, or in dado-trunking installations..
So why should they not be allowed between any two accessories where the cable is below the plaster?
especially as BS7671 does not prohibit them...?

So to say they should not be allowed is a very narrow minded opinion...
Possibly equivalent to "The tail of misunderstanding wagging the dog of ignorance"

If anyone questioned or doubted my expertise, knowledge, experience etc, in selecting the best installation methods for a particular job, then I doubt the working relationship would last very long?

Why would anyone add unnecessary extra cable length to any circuit when reducing volt-drop and earth loop impedance are design considerations that are best kept the minimum they can be??

 

[Andy1733]

In most other rooms sockets are generally much nearer the floor...
So in many situations dropping vertically down, run along below floor, then back up again is a perfectly logical and sensible approach...

However.. if it is a concrete floor.. Running vertically up a wall, across above the ceiling void then back down the wall to another socket on the same wall is daft, expensive, and more likely to be at risk of someone banging a nail through the cable...
Whereas horizontally between sockets in this situation is the best solution for safety, practicality, cost effectiveness etc..

Horizontal runs are common place in surface runs e.g. sheds, workshops, garages, or in dado-trunking installations..
So why should they not be allowed between any two accessories where the cable is below the plaster?
especially as BS7671 does not prohibit them...?

So to say they should not be allowed is a very narrow minded opinion...
Possibly equivalent to "The tail of misunderstanding wagging the dog of ignorance"

If anyone questioned or doubted my expertise, knowledge, experience etc, in selecting the best installation methods for a particular job, then I doubt the working relationship would last very long?

Why would anyone add unnecessary extra cable length to any circuit when reducing volt-drop and earth loop impedance are design considerations that are best kept the minimum they can be??

I appreciate you are the expert but if your client asked for 1 socket in every room when you recommend 3 or 4 would you say they are questioning you expertise?
If I'm willing to pay for the extra materials and labour to fit 8 sockets in a room when you recommend 3 or 4 why would you think they are doubting your expertise or knowledge?
I find it strange how an expert would run cables down a wall. Across a wall and up a wall in the same room. Surely for following trades and home owners (and neatness of work) it would look better to run the cables vertical so the majority of folk know where they run.

 

[Murdoch]

I find it strange how an expert would run cables down a wall. Across a wall and up a wall in the same room. Surely for following trades and home owners (and neatness of work) it would look better to run the cables vertical so the majority of folk know where they run.

I will continue to do what I think is best AND within the scope of the guidance - not that DIY'ers give a fleck about any of this

There is clear guidance on the webb showing vertical, horizontal, close to corners and ceilings. End of.

 

[Andy1733]

I will continue to do what I think is best AND within the scope of the guidance - not that DIY'ers give a fleck about any of this

There is clear guidance on the webb showing vertical, horizontal, close to corners and ceilings. End of.

You give sparkys a good name. Keep up the good work

 

[Andy™]

I find it strange how an expert would run cables down a wall. Across a wall and up a wall in the same room. Surely for following trades and home owners (and neatness of work) it would look better to run the cables vertical so the majority of folk know where they run.

if there far enough apart then that how i would do it, bring cables down and not across. but if you have 2x sockets a meter apart then i will bring one cable run down to a socket then along to the other. cable goes back past the other socket then up. less cable run, less chasing into the wall. depends entirely on situationa nd where the sockets are

 

[binky]

Across a wall and up a wall in the same room. Surely for following trades and home owners (and neatness of work) it would look better to run the cables vertical so the majority of folk know where they run.

trades should know about safe zones for cable runs, home owners, well....

Makes no difference to neatness as it is all hidden behind the plaster work, and the majority of people havn't got a clue where cables run anyway.

Personally I tend to avoid going horizontally across walls for sockets, people tend not to bang nails in below sockets, so it is a little safer run up and down from floor level. However, if it's a stud wall, then horizontal is fine.

 

[blob]

1. The wall is being directly wet plastered, not dot & dab.
2. The wall is 90 year old 110mm brick single skin.

Why spend time chasing horizontally into a wall when you can run back down to a big sub floor void and come back up.

There is also now the problem that a network cable needs to be run up the wall between the two pairs of sockets. So now the wall is apparently going to be chased even deeper where the (unnecessary) crossover occurs.

Many times in life just because you “can” do something doesn’t mean you “should” or that it is best practice.

The regs are surely written to cater for many different circumstances and not to be applied blindly without some thought and consideration of the particular circumstances.

 

[truffle pig]

personally I would go up to the far left socket, then across to the one next to it, then back across on through the 1st socket down under the floor and up to the 2 right hand sockets. no need to chase the longer horizontal bit. However, as it is it complies to regs.
where is the network socket going? why does it have to cross that horizontal cable? if its a problem get the electrician to rewire the sockets as described above - no additional chasing required - a 10 min job