Two Flats Sharing One Electric Supply

[thebowseat]

I live on the ground floor of a Victorian terrace that has been divided into two flats. In the shared entrance hallway is a cupboard containing the two electrical meters, and also the power block (I wasn't at home, my wife thinks this is what he called it?). We had an appointment with an engineer from our electric supplier to come and install a new smart meter for our flat. He said that when the house was split into the two flats, although two meters had been installed, there was only a single power block, meaning the electric supply to one flat can't be cut without also cutting off the other.

The upstairs neighbour, who is difficult at the best of times, refused to allow her electric supply to be switched off for 30 minutes for the job to be done. This led to the engineer leaving, job not done.

I have a few questions,

1. Is this usual, that a split property will only have one power block? This seems to pose issues not only in this instance, but if for example one property didn't pay bills and was to be cut off?

2. If this is unusual, is it mandatory to have two power blocks, i.e. one per flat? If so, who would enforce and install this?

3. Is there any recourse I can turn to to have my neighbour stop blocking the work being done? Asking nicely won't work, she's not that way inclined sadly.

Thanks in advance,

 

[ProDave]

My question is why fo you want a smart meter? they don't seem to offer any benefit to the customer, just possible future ability to bill you more when they want to. at least that's the way I see it.

 

[thebowseat]

Letter from the supplier saying that we were due a replacement meter, not a request.

 

[ProDave]

Their problem, let them solve it.

it's an emergency they would pull the fuse.

 

[misssweden]

I agree with Dave, if you haven't paid for it or requested it to be done then don't worry about it

 

[Evans Electric]

I'm in the middle of dealing with a similar problem , back there tomorrow in fact.    I agree with the above comments , don't persue it , let them sort it out with the landlord .

I've just discovered that the latest network regulations would demand a seperate supply to each of your flats ,  (Quoted £1800.00 )   Landlord doesn't want to to pay that .   Same situation , two flats ...one credit meter ...cash/slot meter in each flat.   

 

[ProDave]

They have got 2 meters here, just one supply head and one fuse.

 

[Murdoch]

A photo would be useful

 

[kme]

You can still, by law, refuse to accept a "smart" meter - if memory serves, they`re a possible "invasion of privacy"!!!!!

 

[Blue Duck]

You can also revert it back to a non smart meter as long as its calibrated

Usually the supply will be looped rather than split, mine is on a loop with 100a main fuse the a 60a for mine, a neutral link the some tatty cable in a pipe to next door then another 60a fuse. UKPN were gonna to quote Mr Bull "DIG UP THE ROAD!" to supply a new cable FOC but downstairs's landlord is a knob and they may have to get a warrant to access their equipment  

Contact you dno http://www2.nationalgrid.com/uk/Our-company/electricity/Distribution-Network-Operator-Companies/ And ask them? they may do it FOC ?

First pic is one supply split in 2 far left note the use of pyro rather than swa

Second pic is lots of small flats & a landlords supply on one cable

 

[binky]

woody wylex - hope you advised  it as a fire risk.

 

[Sharpend]

woody wylex - hope you advised it as a fire risk.

Stop getting ahead of yourself, not a fire risk until 2016!!

 

[ProDave]

surprised they haven't banned wooden back boards for incoming supply heads?

 

[apprentice87]

Hi KME,

Yes, you can DEFINITELY refuse to have a smart meter...

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/do-i-have-to-accept-a-smart-meter

john...

Actually, you can BY LAW even supply your own meter which they HAVE to fit, so if you want a brand "X" meter, you can have one!!

john..

Can i own my own meter???

"Yes, the requirement is enshrined in the revisions to the Electricity Act 1989, which now states: "An authorised supplier may refuse to allow one of his customers to provide a meter only if there are reasonable grounds for his refusal." Customers procuring their own meters has been normal practice for larger electricity customers operating with half hourly meters since 1994. It is becoming increasingly common for customers (generally non-domestic) who are contracting directly with a Meter Operator for the provision of a 'smart' electricity meter. Smart meters generally provide half hourly data for energy management purposes and have communications so that regular accurate meter readings can be provided to the energy supplier"

http://www.meteroperators.org.uk/faqs     [Eighth "FAQ" one down]

john..

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Back to the OP's question. It is very common to find 1 supply fuse for 2 or more properties. Its not been allowed like that for years now though. It is also easy to adapt (by the supplier) to have 2 or more smaller  fuses  after the original one, like Blue Ducks 1st pic.

Whats worse is flats that have been separated from the shop below, the Gas, water & electric supplies/fuses/stopcocks/meters are still in the shop where the owner/landlord/tenant of the flat  has no legal right to enter.

 

[thebowseat]

Thanks all! But to try and focus on the main issue - rather than be side-tracked by the merits, or not, or smart meters - it seems that this set-up is not allowed. Is this in the sense that it is not allowed moving forwards in a new set-up, or that existing set-ups must also be updated to fit new regulations? If I may be permitted to move away from technical to legal electrical advice, in the latter case, in a flat in which myself and my owner both own our own flats as leaseholders, with a third party as the freeholder, who would be responsible for getting this done (i.e. paying for it!)?

 

[Lurch]

in the latter case, in a flat in which myself and my owner both own our own flats as leaseholders, with a third party as the freeholder, who would be responsible for getting this done (i.e. paying for it!)?

As has been mentioned it is the DNOs problem let them fix it. They fitted the meters like that in the first place, they have no problem giving them both MPAN numbers (I assume?) and charging you both for them, this charge includes maintenance and if they have decided that what they did then is now not right then they can fix it. It is not equipment which you can get anyone else to touch so you cannot get a quote from someone else for the work. No-one should be paying anything here.

 

[Essex1]

I live on the ground floor of a Victorian terrace that has been divided into two flats. In the shared entrance hallway is a cupboard containing the two electrical meters, and also the power block (I wasn't at home, my wife thinks this is what he called it?). We had an appointment with an engineer from our electric supplier to come and install a new smart meter for our flat. He said that when the house was split into the two flats, although two meters had been installed, there was only a single power block, meaning the electric supply to one flat can't be cut without also cutting off the other.

The upstairs neighbour, who is difficult at the best of times, refused to allow her electric supply to be switched off for 30 minutes for the job to be done. This led to the engineer leaving, job not done.

I have a few questions,

1. Is this usual, that a split property will only have one power block? This seems to pose issues not only in this instance, but if for example one property didn't pay bills and was to be cut off?

2. If this is unusual, is it mandatory to have two power blocks, i.e. one per flat? If so, who would enforce and install this?

3. Is there any recourse I can turn to to have my neighbour stop blocking the work being done? Asking nicely won't work, she's not that way inclined sadly.

Thanks in advance,

1. I have not seen many properties fed in this way. Normally there would be a separate fuse feeding each flat.

2. No. The existing head (power block) would remain. It would be up to the property owner to install a distribution board (usually a Ryfield Board) that would then sub-divide the main head into multiple fuses. The main head would feed the Ryfield Board which in turn would feed the flats via their individual meters. Although the Ryfield Board is your property the meter installer would seal these fuses to prevent unauthorised access.

3. That would be a legal issue and maybe a property lawyer would be better suited to answer. who is in charge of the communal area?

 

[Andy™]

wow...an entire year...

but see post 4 for answer. not your problem, let DNO / meter company sort it

 

[Essex1]

As has been mentioned it is the DNOs problem let them fix it. They fitted the meters like that in the first place, they have no problem giving them both MPAN numbers (I assume?) and charging you both for them, this charge includes maintenance and if they have decided that what they did then is now not right then they can fix it. It is not equipment which you can get anyone else to touch so you cannot get a quote from someone else for the work. No-one should be paying anything here.

I have to disagree. It is not a DNO issue. They will still only provide one single head. It is after the head where it needs to be split and this is down to the end user. Not the DNO.

The op has a legitimate concern that if one flat does not pay their bill then both flats may well be cut off.