update a consumer unit to a modern RCD type?

[NiffySmiffy]

Is it necessary to update a consumer unit from an old wired fuse type to a modern RCD type?

My son is selling his 1-bedroom starter home and has just had a domestic electrical installation condition report. The report identified four observations classified C2 and one classified C3. The C2 classifications are:

1.       No RCD protection at all

2.       Bathroom Light not IP Rated   -  I see this can be easily rectified

3.       Wooden consumer unit. Danger in terms of fire rating

4.       No labels of warning 230V on consumer unit – Again this must be easy to rectify with an appropriate label

My query is that since the property is estimated to be 25 years old the consumer unit is of the older wired fuse type and not the RCD modern type, do these old wired fuse types need to be updated to the RCD ones?  I was not aware that they are. My daughter is a landlord renting a property and has obviously had a condition report done for renting out and for the safeguard of the tenants. Her report marked the same things as C3 classifications. Additionally, I am in the process of moving and I too have the old unit, therefore I am now concerned that I will have to get a new consumer unit with RCDs. If the RCS unit is required I can’t understand why it should be different for my son’s and daughter’s properties and also unless a property is sold they are unlikely to be updated so there must be thousands of properties with the old wired fuse consumer boxes.

Thanks, in anticipation.

 

[Sharpend]

I should get an Electrician to do the test not a wannabe, with those codes for his observations clearly demonstrates he knows not what he talks about. 

As for non rcd boards, well if they are tested correctly and the integrity of the installation is within the necessary parameters to be compliant with as installed regs edition then it is not necessary to change them, however having said that the rcd boards will afford a greater level of protection in that they are more sensitive and can give an early warning of potential faults. As with everything technology evolves and better 'ways' are established, this does not make it compulsory to upgrade merely may be advisable on greater safety aspect. 

 

[Murdoch]

I would recommend you have a read of this:

https://www.select.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4.pdf

Welcome to the confusion of electrical installation reports!

 

[binky]

for rental purposes, you need to be reasonably 'up to date' . If you went to rent a car, you would expect seatbelts and an MoTed roadworthy vehicle. Tennants can expect the same. For a private household, we can advise that you upgrade the board, but the choice is yours, albeit for selling purposes, with the amount of people who will make a 'song and dance' of the board being old, it's probably worth getting it done to avoid losing buyers.

 

[Murdoch]

Agree with the above advice especially if you are renting a property out.

 

[ProDave]

I think it all depends on what the purchaser is buying it for.  If to live in himself, then no he does not have to do anything. If he is buying it to let then the duty of care he has for the tenant would suggest he would be daft not to replace it.

It should not stop the sale, and at worse he will want to knock a few £00 off the cost to cover the cost of a new consumer unit.  I don't know why people get bothered about having to replace it, it is not a huge job (though sometimes can be) and not that expensive and really does make the installation safer in the case of a fault.

It does annoy me at some monkey giving a C2 for a missing label, that does not make it an immediate danger.

Assuming there were no other C2's (earth bonding etc?) then the CU replacement should be simple.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Is it necessary to update a consumer unit from an old wired fuse type to a modern RCD type?

My son is selling his 1-bedroom starter home and has just had a domestic electrical installation condition report. The report identified four observations classified C2 and one classified C3. The C2 classifications are:

1.       No RCD protection at all

2.       Bathroom Light not IP Rated   -  I see this can be easily rectified

3.       Wooden consumer unit. Danger in terms of fire rating

4.       No labels of warning 230V on consumer unit – Again this must be easy to rectify with an appropriate label

My query is that since the property is estimated to be 25 years old the consumer unit is of the older wired fuse type and not the RCD modern type, do these old wired fuse types need to be updated to the RCD ones?  I was not aware that they are. My daughter is a landlord renting a property and has obviously had a condition report done for renting out and for the safeguard of the tenants. Her report marked the same things as C3 classifications. Additionally, I am in the process of moving and I too have the old unit, therefore I am now concerned that I will have to get a new consumer unit with RCDs. If the RCS unit is required I can’t understand why it should be different for my son’s and daughter’s properties and also unless a property is sold they are unlikely to be updated so there must be thousands of properties with the old wired fuse consumer boxes.

Thanks, in anticipation.

First answer, No, there is no obligation or need to have to replace a traditional wired fuse box. They are not unsafe. A modern box will be safer but the old one is not unsafe. Wire fuses are still an acceptable method of overload protection in the current wiring regulations. Additional RCD shock protection is now a requirement and this can be met in multiple ways, Obviously the easiest is a new fuse box with integral overload and shock protection devices, but devices can also be external to the fuse box.

Your daughters inspection classifying similar things as 'C3' is correct in my opinion, as this follows some industry standard guidance in the link that Murdoch gave.  See pages 16 & 17 of the document and you will see why. https://www.select.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4.pdf  The person who did your sons inspection is either lacking sufficient experience and/or qualifications  for doing such work, or is just incompetent. If this sample of his assessment of immediate and potential dangers on the installation is anything to go by, its possible the whole report is not worth the paper it is written on.

When moving house its not uncommon for the new owners to want different electrical provision than the previous owners, such as;  sockets / lights / type of shower / cooker. So they often have alterations made anyway, which can also include amendments to the circuits at the fuse box. If that is the case it can be best to just leave the existing fuse box in, and reduce you asking price by the amount it would have cost you to replace it. Basically you can choose to do it whichever way suits you best, and will maximise you return for minimal outlay. Replace before sell or leave unchanged, both perfectly legal and acceptable.

Doc H.

 

[binky]

  The person who did your sons inspection is either lacking sufficient experience and/or qualifications  for doing such work, or is just incompetent. 

 or is just trying to generate work.......

 

[Risteard]

No-one appears to have mentioned one important fact:

Not only is a lack of a 230V warning label not a C2 observation - it isn't a breach of any Regulation whatsoever and therefore cannot be coded as such. There is no and has been no requirement for such a label.

 

[kerching]

Surprised that they didn't mention it was 'illegal'.."....that really winds me up

 

[Tony S]

As for an old 3036 Wylex board catching fire, it’s nigh on impossible. I tried.

 

[kerching]

As for an old 3036 Wylex board catching fire, it’s nigh on impossible. I tried.

So did I, with a MAPP!gas torch

pictures are on here somewhere 

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

No-one appears to have mentioned one important fact:

Not only is a lack of a 230V warning label not a C2 observation - it isn't a breach of any Regulation whatsoever and therefore cannot be coded as such. There is no and has been no requirement for such a label.

I agree,  voltage above that needs marking.

If the flat is 25 years  old i doubt  the consumer unit is wood.

Rcd protection was needed for  'equipment that may be used outside' at that time, so it depends on  what floor, outside areas etc the flat is on whether this should have been a code .

Only if the bathroom light is in a zone would make it a non-compliance, not solely because its a bathroom

Although the regulations are not retrospective the  inspection is, so i would make a comment on these sort of items although not always code them.  However as others have said, as a landlord you should consider  these  remarks and upgrade the installation for the better.

 

[Risteard]

Although the regulations are not retrospective the  inspection is, so i would make a comment on these sort of items although not always code them.  However as others have said, as a landlord you should consider  these  remarks and upgrade the installation for the better.

It is worth remembering, however, that the Notes on the EICR do specifically state that any lack of additional protection where it is now required must be coded. The severity of the code, of course, is at the discretion of the Inspector.

 

[Tony S]

It would be nice if the OP came back with a response. Have we allayed his fears or not?

Personally I think he’s employed a charlatan out to get what they can.

 

[NiffySmiffy]

Hi all sorry for not responding earlier I have been away and did not have internet access. As I suspected you guys, i.e  all those who have responded to my original post, have provided excellent comments and pretty much confirmed my thoughts as well as allaying my concerns. Your guidance is much appreciated and I commend you for your knowledge, common sense and thank you all for the time you spent replying. Unfortunately with my non extensive knowledge I am unlikely  to ever be able to return the compliment with an answer to a posting you may make but be assured I will and would if I could. All I can do is offer my sincere thanks and wish you all a very big THANK YOU and a happy and prosperous life.

Cheers

NiffySmiffy  ;-}

P.S.  You can treat this subject/topic as closed.

 

[M107]

So did I, with a MAPP!gas torch

pictures are on here somewhere 

I remember that.