Why is the electrical trade unique in the way it behaves towards customers and fellow tradesmen

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fgs Doc I was referring to electrical quotations. Not fashion designers. I understand people buy Bentleys. I was informed recently about a chap in London who charges several thousands of pounds to wash a car. "Always" take the cheapest price is not to be taken literally ffs. THIS trade is ABSOLUTELY governed by price. Thats how cowboys can operate in it. If it WASN'T governed by cheapest price we would al be fn millionaires.
You are still factually incorrect, if you read my post in full context I am also referring to the electrical industry. As I said, how would British Gas manage to procure any jobs if the whole trade is governed by price. The issue about cost is how each trades person or company advertises, promotes and markets their product or service. Your logic and understanding of how businesses run appears flawed on so many levels. Everybody cannot be millionaires, no matter what trade or business. There will always be more successful and less successful business. Cowboys exist in every other area of business as well, not jut the electrical trade. After reading through the comments on this thread possibly the title of your thread should have been "Why are certain contractors unique in how they behave toward customers, fellow tradesmen and regulatory bodies and running a business ?"

Doc H.

 
Maybe I should qualify that statement about cheapest price. Where quotations are REQUESTED then obviously the customer wants cheapest.

This may not be the case a sensible customer will probably go for a middle of the road quote. How often do you see people on cowboy builders type shows that have been left with an unfinished job just because they have taken the cheapest quote and the price quoted would be an impossibility for the amount of work required to be done.
 
Where quotations are REQUESTED then obviously the customer wants cheapest.
OR....

OBVIOUSLY the customer wants to see exactly what they are getting for their money...

and want something in writing not just word of mouth if they are spending several hundred/thousand pounds

to someone who is going to come in and knock their home about stuffing cables in walls etc..

NOT necessarily cheapest IMHO!

I do loads of quotes and have been told many times I am not the cheapest...

but I am selected due to the professional layout of the quote, clearly defined work required schedule and itemised costs...

You do seem out of touch with a lot of aspects of how businesses and customers operate!

:C

Guess thats what makes you unique in this trade?

:|

 
you should get yourself adopted! :|

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 17:58 ---------- Previous post was made at 17:58 ----------

Some of us a very similar and came from the same mould, when they built you they threw the mould away :slap
.

 
One of the main problems with the industry is the age old conception of it by other trades and the public of, if it works its ok and also because a lot of the work is not visible then it's value is less than that of say a nicely skimmed wall or big shiny boiler, this leads to a general insecurity in the Electrical trade and it is difficult to explain to a customer in layman terms the why's and wherefores of something which is not to a decent standard and should be improved, again the attitude of it works so it must be ok!

The only way I see this will change is when deaths and injuries/accidents are publicised more.

The industry used to be well respected ie the cleverest bloke on site was usually an electrician when the old apprenticeships were run, the modern version leaves a lot to be desired you can see on any forum the lack of general education is evident in many posts especially spelling, basic questions etc

I've worked with a few electricians and apprentices and have never stopped being amazed at the attitudes towards this trade, most think that once they've got their papers thats it no more reading!

the college system is also to blame I've worked with lads who left school with far better qualifications than my self and they struggle to comprehend a lot of the theory etc the colleges are now concentrating on meeting the ofsted requirements instead of the final product I've had meetings with the lecturers from my local college most of whom have not had any experience on the tools and continually allow people onto the courses who do not have the correct aptitude or attitude to be an Electrician but they do have lots of A's from school

I suggested that they look closer at who they take on I know its also down to the employer ,teach them the subject more thoroughly and the results will fend off the ofsted reports

a good example of this is the apprentice I employ (I'm lucky to have him), started when he was 22 with our old firm I had him from day one until I left in his 1st year ,out of 12 lads qualified and not

he was the only one I offered a job to if he should want it , he left to work withme at the end of the second year

He's just done his final exams, waiting to do the AM2 so he decided to work hard and do the 2391 last night

This lad (all credit goes to him by the way I help as much as I can but its down to him ultimately) has won apprentice of the year twice and passed everything with distinctions has had to sit in the same class as a couple of other lads I know who have about a 5th of his knowledge and understanding of the subject which is form his own reading etc and watch them being spoonfed answers to past exam papers and coached for their resits

one apprentice I worked with at a firm failed his multiple choice exams 6 times , he's now self employed and with a scheme !

and no doubt will be undercutting me on a job in the near future

There is also the undercutting factor which electricians seem to be good at more so than other trades, personally I won't do it I want to be paid what I think the job is worth,

undercutting for ridiculous amounts is not the same as being competitive this leads to the ****ging off of others and sometimes poor attitude towards others in the game

In other countries you need a license to work as an electrician ,they charge what they feel they're worth reflecting the skill/qualifications level and still remain competitive as all electricians are charging approximately the same but they sell on the quality or service given

in the Uk undercutting means everyone is worse off in the end as the work is constantly devalued and we end up working for nothing

the main cause I feel is the new generation of often underskilled tradesmen competing with the guy who is going to do it properly and as he has the overheads is going to lose out, then to compete he'll have to lower his standards ,its just a vicious downwards spiral

Compare this to the Gas fitter, the jobs virtually licenced joe bloggs can't do it, they hold customers over a barrel , and he always charges a rate much higher than your electrician would do for the equivalent amount of work we should be following their lead making the work pay , but without the rip off factor

Ours is a skilled and professional trade and its upto everyone to keep it that way

At the end of the day its a question of attitudes and ethics and not being too shortsighted

 
there is definitely a hidden part of our works where most other trades are visual/seemingly more accountable such as a steel portal perhaps not seen at completion but is seen being constructed were as we install 100m of 6x8 trunking which is visual then may spend weeks wiring which isnt exactly seen, being installed as its fed in from a small opening at one end or fault finding you dont actually produce anything!

 
My Mates Mum summed it up if I can't see it I don't want to pay for it

This is not just limited to electrical work I used to work in Engineering previously and the bosses loved the guy who was building something simple but large ie a dust silo but would give you the evils as you struggled with a small complex job with tight tolerances even though the smaller job was more profitable time wise, must just be Human nature.

 
I'm gonna give this thread the simple answer that should have been given at the beginning. Had i have been here to see this then i would have done so.

Unphased i've had it up to here with your belly aching and running down of electricians. I've heard you spouting your crap at the Napit forum and now i'm hearing it here. Take my advice sunshine, sod off out of this trade if you despise it so much. I have never come across someone who gets himself into so many bad situations and then whines about it like a little girl with a grazed knee. Grow up!

 
I'm gonna give this thread the simple answer that should have been given at the beginning. Had i have been here to see this then i would have done so.Unphased i've had it up to here with your belly aching and running down of electricians. I've heard you spouting your crap at the Napit forum and now i'm hearing it here. Take my advice sunshine, sod off out of this trade if you despise it so much. I have never come across someone who gets himself into so many bad situations and then whines about it like a little girl with a grazed knee. Grow up!
:Applaudheadbang:slap:slap:shakehead:shakehead:^O

 
One of the main problems with the industry is the age old conception of it by other trades and the public of, if it works its ok and also because a lot of the work is not visible then it's value is less than that of say a nicely skimmed wall or big shiny boiler, this leads to a general insecurity in the Electrical trade and it is difficult to explain to a customer in layman terms the why's and wherefores of something which is not to a decent standard and should be improved, again the attitude of it works so it must be ok!The only way I see this will change is when deaths and injuries/accidents are publicised more.

The industry used to be well respected ie the cleverest bloke on site was usually an electrician when the old apprenticeships were run, the modern version leaves a lot to be desired you can see on any forum the lack of general education is evident in many posts especially spelling, basic questions etc

I've worked with a few electricians and apprentices and have never stopped being amazed at the attitudes towards this trade, most think that once they've got their papers thats it no more reading!

the college system is also to blame I've worked with lads who left school with far better qualifications than my self and they struggle to comprehend a lot of the theory etc the colleges are now concentrating on meeting the ofsted requirements instead of the final product I've had meetings with the lecturers from my local college most of whom have not had any experience on the tools and continually allow people onto the courses who do not have the correct aptitude or attitude to be an Electrician but they do have lots of A's from school

I suggested that they look closer at who they take on I know its also down to the employer ,teach them the subject more thoroughly and the results will fend off the ofsted reports

a good example of this is the apprentice I employ (I'm lucky to have him), started when he was 22 with our old firm I had him from day one until I left in his 1st year ,out of 12 lads qualified and not

he was the only one I offered a job to if he should want it , he left to work withme at the end of the second year

He's just done his final exams, waiting to do the AM2 so he decided to work hard and do the 2391 last night

This lad (all credit goes to him by the way I help as much as I can but its down to him ultimately) has won apprentice of the year twice and passed everything with distinctions has had to sit in the same class as a couple of other lads I know who have about a 5th of his knowledge and understanding of the subject which is form his own reading etc and watch them being spoonfed answers to past exam papers and coached for their resits

one apprentice I worked with at a firm failed his multiple choice exams 6 times , he's now self employed and with a scheme !

and no doubt will be undercutting me on a job in the near future

There is also the undercutting factor which electricians seem to be good at more so than other trades, personally I won't do it I want to be paid what I think the job is worth,

undercutting for ridiculous amounts is not the same as being competitive this leads to the ****ging off of others and sometimes poor attitude towards others in the game

In other countries you need a license to work as an electrician ,they charge what they feel they're worth reflecting the skill/qualifications level and still remain competitive as all electricians are charging approximately the same but they sell on the quality or service given

in the Uk undercutting means everyone is worse off in the end as the work is constantly devalued and we end up working for nothing

the main cause I feel is the new generation of often underskilled tradesmen competing with the guy who is going to do it properly and as he has the overheads is going to lose out, then to compete he'll have to lower his standards ,its just a vicious downwards spiral

Compare this to the Gas fitter, the jobs virtually licenced joe bloggs can't do it, they hold customers over a barrel , and he always charges a rate much higher than your electrician would do for the equivalent amount of work we should be following their lead making the work pay , but without the rip off factor

Ours is a skilled and professional trade and its upto everyone to keep it that way

At the end of the day its a question of attitudes and ethics and not being too shortsighted
Top post EDL .

 
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