Wind turbine...help!!

[NozSpark]

Had a phone call today about connecting a small wind turbine at a house local to me. It's only a small turbine and will be connected via a grid tie in invertor....

How do you connect these to your existing circuits?? (I have asked for installation instructions and all I got was the promo stuff you get on line)

Cheers

 

[mcgaw81]

How to Connect a Wind Generator to a Home | eHow.com

Dont know if it helps but thought i'd post

 

[NozSpark]

Very basic I'm afraid....

From what I understand it has to be connected to a dedicated circuit (non RCD) via a fused spur, I would have thought that it'd also need a RCD between the GTI and the FS

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I assume this would be the same as PV solar panels..

In a nut shell it joins onto your CU via an MCB.

I got a job where a green energy company fitted PV panels and other gubbins..

but the final bit was a 2.5mm T&E via a 20A mcb, "Suitably labelled" at the CU.

In between the CU and PV kit there has to be a lockable isolation switch,

and the big Warning's sign at the CU saying dual supply i.e.

Reg 514.15.1

The interconnecting cable only needs to be as big as the current the generator can produce.

I put the incoming MCB next to the main switch in the CU, to keep incoming supplies together.

but you would need to check manufactures instructions.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

NICEIC have a best practice guide

connecting a micro generating system.,..

PDF you can download

2nd one down...

Best Practice Guide - Approved contractor scheme - NICEIC Group

 

[NozSpark]

I assume this would be the same as PV solar panels..Iv'e had a look through the regs and there doesn't seem to be any specific regs for wind turbines as there are PV panels

In a nut shell it joins onto your CU via an MCB.

I got a job where a green energy company fitted PV panels and other gubbins..

Same sort of thing here!!

but the final bit was a 2.5mm T&E via a 20A mcb, "Suitably labelled" at the CU.

What about RCD protection of burried cables??

In between the CU and PV kit there has to be a lockable isolation switch,

Is this a general reg or for PV??

and the big Waring's at the CU saying dual supply i.e.

Reg 514.15.1

Check!

The interconnecting cable only needs to be as big as the current the generator can produce.

Check!

I put the incoming MCB next to the main switch in the CU, to keep incoming supplies together.

Excellent idea!!

but you would need to check manufactures instructions.

Not got any installation instructions :_| :_|

Cheers

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

What about RCD protection of burried cables??

What cables are going to be buried?

AFAIK the generating equipment normally goes through a magic box to synchronise the phase of the generated electric with the street supples electric.

the final connection is between this box & the CU..

typically located as near as possible to each other..

(via the iso switch.)

IF there is an RCD in circuit it MUST be dual pole NOT single pole RCBO.

In between the CU and PV kit there has to be a lockable isolation switch,Is this a general reg or for PV??

537.1.6

Isolation, dual supplies.

and we all no safe isolation..

we lock off our circuits or mains switches! ; )Blushing

but you would need to check manufactures instructions.Not got any installation instructions..

self build??

mecanno?? ]

 

[NozSpark]

Ahhh....

Not quite mecanno,,, you know how it is, the guy wants a price for the work tomorrow "it'll only take a couple of hours!" and he hasn't got me any proper info at all..

I think I really need a site visit, as now I've just read through that fact sheet (masterfull link BTW)

(p10)

"As mentioned previously, the exemption to the

requirement for prior consent of the distributor,

contained in Regulation 22(2) of the Electricity

Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002,

requires compliance with the current edition of

BS 7671. Prior to commencing the installation of a

microgenerator, the installer must confirm such

compliance, for example, by examining a recent

Periodic Inspection Report for the existing

installation (if available), or by carrying out a Periodic

Inspection."

Basically - all has to be well before connecting up!!

What do you recon???

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Ahhh....Not quite mecanno,,, you know how it is, the guy wants a price for the work tomorrow "it'll only take a couple of hours!" and he hasn't got me any proper info at all..

I think I really need a site visit, as now I've just read through that fact sheet (masterfull link BTW)

(p10)

"As mentioned previously, the exemption to the

requirement for prior consent of the distributor,

contained in Regulation 22(2) of the Electricity

Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002,

requires compliance with the current edition of

BS 7671. Prior to commencing the installation of a

microgenerator, the installer must confirm such

compliance, for example, by examining a recent

Periodic Inspection Report for the existing

installation (if available), or by carrying out a Periodic

Inspection."

Basically - all has to be well before connecting up!!

What do you recon???

That is a very good point!

it would also come under 131.8

no addition alteration temp or permanent undertaken without verifying bonding & condition of installation etc..!

I think you do need a site visit first.. too many unknown quantity's,

No manufactures instruction, Condition unknown, Size & type of CU, spare capacity etc..

I would probably agree a few ground rules in writing regarding costs & ongoing later testing / commissioning if parts missing or not functional with the generator?

If you are not supplying the turbine.. How do you know it works??

e.g.

suss out the job give a price for installing & connecting the gear

And another provisional price or testing commissioning, which may increase if fault or delays occur with the turbine equipment.

It could be a job that goes spot on first time..

or you could end up phoning and waiting for someone at turbine headquarters to give you some tech info you should of been told at the start!

 

[NozSpark]

This job is for a turbine installer (retailer),,

They will erect the mast, turbine and all the equipment up to the GTI and they want me give them a price to connect into the DB!!!

I guess all the installation information will be available at the time, but I don't have any at the moment to help in pricing thie job!!!!!

Will give them a ring in the morning..

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I think I really need a site visit, as now I've just read through that fact sheet (masterfull link BTW)

Forgot to say..

I think ALL of those Best-practice guides are good..

I went though & downloaded them all..

printed them out & they are in an nice A4 ring binder, kept with me regs books etc.. for easy reference when needed!

 

[Apache]

Forgot to say..I think ALL of those Best-practice guides are good..

I went though & downloaded them all..

printed them out & they are in an nice A4 ring binder, kept with me regs books etc.. for easy reference when needed!

By next week you'll know them all off by heart too

Add it to the useful links section?

 

[batty]

Noz

Don't do them any favours. I have done a few heating control upgrades for a company that does solar panels. They want a price before you have looked at job and then they keep you waiting months for your money. Yet the owner drives around in a Ferrari.

Batty

 

[NozSpark]

Site visit now agreed..

However, I phoned up the tech support line (NICEIC) and they say that only the turbine (GTI) circuit needs to be to current regs? :| ?:|

 

[GreekIslandLover]

OK - some dumb blonde questions:-

So if you connect two supplies to one standard consumer unit, concievably both the turbine and incoming mains supplies would be present at the same time. How does the installation know to use the turbine supply? If two supplies are pesent, the phases are not going to be syncronised - isn't this a problem? Whats to stop the supply just going from the mains incoming supply straight back to the turbine? Surely there must be some control gear to keep the supplies separate, switch off the incoming mains when (if) the turbine is producing all the required supply? Also, there must be a lot of times when demand needs to use all of the supply from the turbine plus top up from the mains - therefore wouldn't they need to be phase syncronised? Also, idn't it usual to have (in the case of turbines) a meter that sells back electricity to the grid when it's over producing? So I'm wondering if it is simply a case of connecting it to the supply via an mcb, or there is a lot more involved.

 

[Apache]

OK - some dumb blonde questions:-So if you connect two supplies to one standard consumer unit, concievably both the turbine and incoming mains supplies would be present at the same time. How does the installation know to use the turbine supply? If two supplies are pesent, the phases are not going to be syncronised - isn't this a problem? Whats to stop the supply just going from the mains incoming supply straight back to the turbine? Surely there must be some control gear to keep the supplies separate, switch off the incoming mains when (if) the turbine is producing all the required supply? Also, there must be a lot of times when demand needs to use all of the supply from the turbine plus top up from the mains - therefore wouldn't they need to be phase syncronised? Also, idn't it usual to have (in the case of turbines) a meter that sells back electricity to the grid when it's over producing? So I'm wondering if it is simply a case of connecting it to the supply via an mcb, or there is a lot more involved.

The magic box you speak of is between the turbine and the CU to synchronise phase etc. Becasue the electric is AC it doesn't matter where in the circuit you feed it in as long as the cable and protective devices can cope and the phase is the same AFAIK.

If you read the link it explains about buy back contracts with the electricity companies.

Anyone can do the fitting of the turbine but proper spark connecting into CU!

Also see Specs post

 

[NozSpark]

Greek,

Ill try and answer as many of your questions as I can, but I cannot guarantee that I am correct!!

OK - some dumb blonde questions:-So if you connect two supplies to one standard consumer unit, concievably both the turbine and incoming mains supplies would be present at the same time. How does the installation know to use the turbine supply?

From what I gather the turbine produces it's electricity at a slightly higher voltage than the mains supply

If two supplies are pesent, the phases are not going to be syncronised - isn't this a problem? Whats to stop the supply just going from the mains incoming supply straight back to the turbine? Surely there must be some control gear to keep the supplies separate, switch off the incoming mains when (if) the turbine is producing all the required supply?

You use a device called a "Grid Tied Invertor", which is connected to your installation either via an existing circuit or by a dedicated circuit

Also, there must be a lot of times when demand needs to use all of the supply from the turbine plus top up from the mains - therefore wouldn't they need to be phase syncronised?

See above, although in this case the turbine is only 300w:O

Also, idn't it usual to have (in the case of turbines) a meter that sells back electricity to the grid when it's over producing? So I'm wondering if it is simply a case of connecting it to the supply via an mcb, or there is a lot more involved.

There are quite a lot of extra regs about connecting turbines to your installation to run alongside the grid mains. Under a certain size you only need to notify the DNO, above and you need their authorisation!! If you have a look at the link to the NIC fact sheet (which is very good) that will give you a lot of info

FYI..

When talking to the installer they said that turbines of this size will never pay back the investment, most people who have them want to be seen to be "Green" and doing their bit for the environment (you cannot miss these things)

Also re. the installation being up to regs.. onl talking to the NIC they say that it is only the turbine circuits that need to be up to scratch (inc bonding) and not the whole insallation.. I am going to be speeking to someone in the DNO hopefully tomorrow.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Greek,Ill try and answer as many of your questions as I can, but I cannot guarantee that I am correct!!

FYI..

When talking to the installer they said that turbines of this size will never pay back the investment, most people who have them want to be seen to be "Green" and doing their bit for the environment (you cannot miss these things)

Also re. the installation being up to regs.. onl talking to the NIC they say that it is only the turbine circuits that need to be up to scratch (inc bonding) and not the whole insallation.. I am going to be speeking to someone in the DNO hopefully tomorrow.

Applaud SmileyApplaud SmileyApplaud Smiley

I hereby nominate NOZ as our official forum Turbine expert for the whole of the next month!!! Guiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness Drink

Go and get the turbine hat from admins cupboard NOZ!! :^O :^O:xApplaud Smiley

 

[NozSpark]

Just make sure you duck when I walk into the room,,,,

Don't want a bloody mess do we??

 

[EL Zappo]

Had a phone call today about connecting a small wind turbine at a house local to me. It's only a small turbine and will be connected via a grid tie in invertor....How do you connect these to your existing circuits?? (I have asked for installation instructions and all I got was the promo stuff you get on line)

Cheers

You must speak to the local DNO engineer first off. The equipment used must be be approved before connection if being used as grid connected. He will also probably visit the site to witness commissioning of the equipment and operation / proving of correct protection. Different DNO'S have different ways of working. I know the SPOW area are very stringent when it comes to embedded generation sites.

You may also require a MOP contract which can run into hundreds of pounds. (not worth it in my opinion.) The amount of spill onto the network can be negligible. Make sure that the DNO metering is not solid state as this can detect reverse running and cause loop diconnection. Happy hunting.