17th interpretation

[Evans Electric]

How do others interpret the bit in the Regs about flush wiring and RCDs " When the installation is under the control of a competent person"

I'm thinking in terms of a commercial premises where there is no DIY but electrical work is carried out by a contractor (me). I look after various printers and would not want to introduce RCDs to their office ring mains with all that IT stuff shoving residual currents round the earth wires.

 

[Badger]

How do others interpret the bit in the Regs about flush wiring and RCDs " When the installation is under the control of a competent person" I'm thinking in terms of a commercial premises where there is no DIY but electrical work is carried out by a contractor (me). I look after various printers and would not want to introduce RCDs to their office ring mains with all that IT stuff shoving residual currents round the earth wires.

here at home, we have cctv and computers all on a mcb surge protected circuit, NOT RCD Protected anyways was showing niceic 2 years ago and they insited an rcbo be put on this circuit which i refused point blank, and my reasoning is because it will never be able to have equipment used outdoors as its upstairs, and the circuit is behind the computer desk which is not accessible unkess you move the desk, to plug something in which all 4 sockets are full anyway with routers, cctv monitors, pcs, router etc etc etc and after i explained im the only to use the associated equipement he backed down and i won my case, but going to your question basically i would never put computers or cctv equipemnt or printers etc etc etc, on RCD protected circuits.

 

[TTbangbang]

here at home, we have cctv and computers all on a mcb surge protected circuit, NOT RCD Protected anyways was showing niceic 2 years ago and they insited an rcbo be put on this circuit which i refused point blank, and my reasoning is because it will never be able to have equipment used outdoors as its upstairs, and the circuit is behind the computer desk which is not accessible unkess you move the desk, to plug something in which all 4 sockets are full anyway with routers, cctv monitors, pcs, router etc etc etc and after i explained im the only to use the associated equipement he backed down and i won my case, but going to your question basically i would never put computers or cctv equipemnt or printers etc etc etc, on RCD protected circuits.

What about if the installation is TT? use a 100ma RCD?

 

[batty]

I have just had my assessment for the part p. My assessor said on the issue of RCD'S in offices. If it is an existing installation ie before 16/17th edition there is no need to install RCD'S as long as earth fault loop etc are at acceptable levels. I was doing a periodic of some offices at the time he told me to put no RCD'S as a code 4 so that is what I shall do in future.

Batty

 

[Evans Electric]

I have a new office installation coming up. The ring mains will be wired surface through dado trunking, therefore , IMO I will not be fitting any RCDs . Someone is saying that I should be fitting them, but in an office full of IT stuff its the last thing I need.

What do you guys think ?

Deke

 

[batty]

I think to comply with 17th edition you will need to RCD protect as any socket under 20 amps needs 30mA RCD protection. I did some offices a couple of years ago these had RCD protection although there are not too many computers on each circuit. You could install say five sockets on each circuit to keep currents down.

Batty

 

[sirsparkabit]

I have a new office installation coming up. The ring mains will be wired surface through dado trunking, therefore , IMO I will not be fitting any RCDs . Someone is saying that I should be fitting them, but in an office full of IT stuff its the last thing I need.What do you guys think ?

Deke

Bit of subject Sandra but can you give me some tips on using dado trunking for power circuits i have never used any but have some to fit soon.

Hope you do not mind Sindy.

 

[Evans Electric]

Dado trunking is quite easy ,Sirspark. Various makes, all 3 compartment, the best is MK Powerlink which has fixed live rails inside. Just bring a feed to one end and the sockets snap onto the rails. You can add one without switching off. Trouble is its expensive although you save on wiring and connecting.

Cheaper option is a 3 comp. that you wire yourself. Trunking carries mains sockets, data sockets and telecoms.

Full range of flat bends, internal and external bends etc.

Sandra

 

[Evans Electric]

I think to comply with 17th edition you will need to RCD protect as any socket under 20 amps needs 30mA RCD protection. I did some offices a couple of years ago these had RCD protection although there are not too many computers on each circuit. You could install say five sockets on each circuit to keep currents down.Batty

Oh yes, I'd forgotten the bit about sockets under 20a , thanks Batts. I'd better mug up on the Big Red one a bit more I think :|

Deke

 

[seajayess]

I think you will find that the regs only require RCD protection (in your case) where there is not a competent person ie domestic installation. Where the installation is commercial / industrial there should be a competent person in charge (I think it is a health and safety requirement) so no RCD required, not double checked as regs as they are in the van. CJS

 

[Evans Electric]

Oh Right , thanks CJS , that was my original thinking.

Deke

 

[Mr Sworld]

That's my understanding too. At work we have 4 full time electricians so the building is 'under supervision'.

However as all the circuits in the walls were run in conduit and we rcd any circuits in public areas as part of the licence it's a moot point really!

 

[sirsparkabit]

Dado trunking is quite easy ,Sirspark. Various makes, all 3 compartment, the best is MK Powerlink which has fixed live rails inside. Just bring a feed to one end and the sockets snap onto the rails. You can add one without switching off. Trouble is its expensive although you save on wiring and connecting. Cheaper option is a 3 comp. that you wire yourself. Trunking carries mains sockets, data sockets and telecoms.

Full range of flat bends, internal and external bends etc.

Sandra

Thanks Sandra , with the three compartment is it just a case of trimming out to fit the sockets?.Yours Sindy

 

[NozSpark]

When ever I've used 3 compartment trunking I have always left the centre compartment empty (apart from the accesories) top compatrment for mains, bottom compartment for data & comms.... I try and get as much separation as possible!!

For the fitting of backboxes, they are special to the trunking and just clip in, you then just trim the lid to suit

 

[Evans Electric]

Nozspark has said it all I think Sindy . I forgot to say that the boxes snap in to the centre section 1gang & 2 gang, power , data & phones. Top & botton lids go on seperately then cut the centre lid to suit your boxes. If there is a suspended ceiling, we often turn the trunking up into the ceiling space and route all the cables down it from there.

Marshal Tufflex do one where you add your own seperator to suit .

Deke

 

[sirsparkabit]

Cheers Sandra and Noz,

think i have that sussed now .

If you have never used these things you have to ask and i hope you do not think i am

Many thanks guys

ssab:x:x Alias Sindy

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I think you will find that the regs only require RCD protection (in your case) where there is not a competent person ie domestic installation. Where the installation is commercial / industrial there should be a competent person in charge (I think it is a health and safety requirement) so no RCD required, not double checked as regs as they are in the van. CJS

Agreed.

Think its 411.3.3 that is the key reg on this point....

short paraphrase version....

Additional protectionac systems additional protection by means of RCD provided for

(i) socket outlets rated not exceeding 20A for use by ordinary persons & for general use.

and(ii) mobile equipment with rating less than 32A

exception to (i) permitted for

(a) sockets used under supervision of skilled or instructed persons e.g. some commercial / industrial locations

(B) A specific labelled or otherwise identified outlets for a particular item of equipment.

sindy / sandy & co.Guiness Drink

wheres Barbie???? ?:| :|

 

[sirsparkabit]

And Ken is missing specs]

 

[kme]

If Special location is alias "donkey"

And SSAB (sindy), judging by his avatar, is a pink dragon, they should get on VERY well

 

[sirsparkabit]

If Special location is alias "donkey"And SSAB (sindy), judging by his avatar, is a pink dragon, they should get on VERY well

I thought colour blind people could not be spark's (Dragon Red)

Donkeys smell ]

I also seem to remember you spent a lot of time in ****gy's arms shivering with fright (or so i thought scoob) :^O:^O