5 week wonder, urban myth?

[Guy]

I am a 5 week wonder (12 actually) and do not consider myself to be an electrician yet (mate/improver) and I did not get the impression that any of my fellow students were gonna go out into the world with a 'IM SUPER SPARK AND KNOW NO LIMITS' attitude, how did the shake'n'bake crew get such a bad rep? Real life examples would be great.

 

[M107]

I'm off out to a quiz night, but later I might post a couple of pictures of 5ww work........see how wasted I am when I get back..... Guinness

 

[Manator]

It is a shame that there are some very good electricians that have taken time to learn the trade, know their limitations, and asked for advise, to be tarred with the same brush as those who just do not give a damn. Working examples are, I am afraid, all too prevelent, this is mainly down to ignorance of the science behind electrical work, as an apprentice we can all remember how boring, and often irrelevent, we thought this science was. In fact once you have passed and working for a company the majority of electricians would never need any of it. However, if you have to work for yourself it is vital that what you do complies, is the cheapest option for the client and is safe. The only way to do this is when you have a full understanding of calculations, installation methods, new products and safe practices.

I do know some of our esteemed members are broadly catergarised as 5 day wonders, but knowing what they post, and how passionate they are in doing things right, I for one would not hesitate to endorse them.

 

[batty]

Problem is guy you have sparks doing work not sure how long they have been doing it IE if they are five weekers but they don't even understand earthing they will fit 16th edition boards on TT systems and think this is OK.

 

[Manator]

I know of one were a factory bought a brand new 3 phase motor because the "sparc" they called said it was no good, new one did not work, the factory owner is a old mate of mine and asked if I could have a look, he said this elecrtrician had been there all week, cost him

 

[batty]

I don't get to involved with motors so unless it something really obvious i will tell customers to get a more industrial sparks in. Shame other so called sparks don't know there limitations. Hope he didn't pay that other sparks bill manator.

 

[Manator]

He paid him a days wages, and I managed to get hold of the company that exchanged the motor, after checking it was an old type anyway and did not have the green symbol, for efficiency, so talked him into keeping the new motor with warranty, and I gave him a number of a local electrician who knows his onions. the guy that tried to fix it was a DI, so I doubt he even did a college course.

 

[Guy]

Do part P plasterers, builders, kitchen fitters etc also fall under the '5 week wonder' banner, i just want to be sure who we are talking about?

 

[batty]

If they have been on a short course probably but i use stronger words for them.

 

[Manator]

Do part P plasterers, builders, kitchen fitters etc also fall under the '5 week wonder' banner, i just want to be sure who we are talking about?

This is one of my pet hates, and I have written about the failings in limited scope, especially when an assessor told me he was impressed with how one kitchen fitting company terminated joints!!

There is no room in this industry for multi skilled people, for instance I can plaster (of a fashion), I can plumb (in a fashion) I can even build a cupboard again (in a fashion), but I would never try to make a living doing any of them, I am an electrician, and it takes all my available knowledge and learning to master that single trade.

 

[PC Electrics]

IMO there are bad sparks from all backgrounds.

Trouble is there are also many 000's who could 'spark' with complete impunity having learnt everything they know 'on the job' since 16 working for the same firm, but never actually been to college and so have no formal qualifications to their name. As they saw it, the advent of pP suddenly rendered them non-competent, because they didn't have the entry requirements to join a scheme.

Even builders, kitchen fitters and DIYers with no real electrical knowledge at all could rewire a house with no legal restraint and no comeback if it was dangerous

There have always been people who have retrained and moved from one sector of work to another. Think miners. With the advent of pP many of these career changers could now qualify as a DI (where there had been no such category before even though these people always existed). Those in firms with no formal quals or who didn't do enough 'weekenders' to warrant joining suddenly had a previously lucrative source of cash income cut off. In their eyes the Government was interfering in their legitimate business.

Jealousy rears its ugly head. The phrase "5 week wonder" is born as a derogatory term for those who are stealing 'their' work.

The fact is though, that there are bad sparks in every category and from every background. Here in Lutterworth, there's a local well known firm, NIC, ECA, been around 30+ years. But some of their work is very poor and simply non-compliant. But these are 'real sparks' and who am I to criticise their work!!

As a career changer myself, even I can see that the new competent persons scheme rules (set by Government, not the schemes) is allowing people to set themselves up as DIs even though their aptitude is low. But there are also people who've been electricians mates all their lives now setting themselves up and failing because they don't have the aptitude either.

And, unfortunately, pP hasn't really done anything to cut off the real cowboys. They just carry on regardless because the 'system' isn't policed. Hence, us 5WWs have to endure the frustrations of the 'real' sparks.

BTW, many of these same issues existed in the automotive industry too. One of the reasons I left Land Rover in '98 to go to one of the worlds largest teir 1 suppliers.

 

[PC Electrics]

Do part P plasterers, builders, kitchen fitters etc also fall under the '5 week wonder' banner, i just want to be sure who we are talking about?

I agree with Manator here. It's all very well them becoming pP, but most of these people simply don't have the background technical knowledge to allow them to carry out good work, well engineered to a sound design. Neither do they have the technical knowledge (nor, often, the command of English to understand technical regulations)

 

[Manator]

very well said PC, and from the heart, and I for one know that career change or not, I bet your one hell of an electrician.

 

[PC Electrics]

PC - +1Yes they are proper qualified sparks out there who either have the 17th or are still working to the 14th and then doing the job badly or dangerously

I think its about knowing your limitations

which itself is part of the regulations!! Knowing your own limitations also requires considerable intelligence and aptitude.

 

[steptoe]

Jealousy rears its ugly head. The phrase "5 week wonder" is born as a derogatory term for those who are stealing 'their' work.

thats both a very confrontational and defensive statement all in one, well worded. :Applaud

5ww isnt derogatory, just a statement of fact, and we have at least one member who isnt ashamed to call himself a "shake&bake" , I like that phrase,

so, if you dont have any worries or problems with doing a short course then I suggest you should state as much on all your business cards and promotional activities for work,

but, I bet you wont ever tell any prospective client that you passed all your exams on a 5 week course (or whatever?), will you?

maybe you are the jealous one for some people actually having put the time in to learn a craft and trade, while you have merely learned to read and pass an exam?!

I dont think you will find many Sparks that are jealous of 5WW, a lot that are amazed at how they get away with appalling work maybe.

I dont personally have any issue with wannabe electricians stealing work from me, in fact, they seem to generate quite a lot for me,

PIRs that dont seem quite right so a landlord will speak to another that recommends me to go and have a look,

9 times out of ten miscodes and I tell them not to pay for the first inspection as it is grossly wrong,

I have in the past told clients that they dont need a new CU simply because their 'old' one has no RCD on the lights(split load 16th compliant), this had been code1 on the PIR, very common.

I would also say that 9/10 I get a run at the remedials[including a new CU on occasion] as I have simply been honest and said, 'yes, it may be an improvement, but its NOT actually legally required' ,

and, TBH, some of the faults are just total nonsense.

back to the point though,

Im fairly proud to say to folks that I spent 5years of my life learning the basics and the rest of it picking up how to actually do it,

I actually have a laugh with customers when they ask me how long Ive been doing it for, and I tell them, "well, to be honest with you Im still learning, Ive only been at it since I was 16 and the 5 years apprenticeship was wasted on me!"

bet you dont tell them you learnt it all in 5weeks and thats why you are a demi-god now!?

until I have proof to the contrary then I take 5WFW they way they deserve to be taken,

[dispensation to the folks that have already proved to me they can pull the splines!"

 

[ivixxiv]

Drives me nuts this and i'd probably be banned if I wrote down what I think of 5 week wonders/Domestic Installers

What really ****es me off is that 5ww call themselves electricians, they're not and they should be taken to court by trading standards if they do

 

[Manator]

I am going to be brutal, I hate them (5 day wonders), but I must admit some of our members on here have shown me never tar all with the same brush, I have seen some really really good posts from people who have admitted to do fast track courses. I can never knock them, I wish I could

 

[ProDave]

I think one thing that separates a good spark, from a poor spark, is a good interest in and knowledge of electricity and electrical circuits.

It's always been an interest of mine. Since the age of about 7 I was playing with batteries switches and light bulbs. I was building electronic circuits not much after age 10.

I always knew electrics interested me, and found it all made perfect sense so I knew that was what I wanted to do when I left school and was fortunate to go straight from school to an apprenticeship. I found the apprenticeship, and the college that went with it easy.

So when I encounter a fault, I can visualise the circuit in my head and trace through how it should work.

Now then there are electricians who do it, just because it seemed like a good idea at the time. Sometimes they struggle with the theory, learn just what's needed to pass the exam, with little real understanding of electrical circuits, so as soon as they encounter something that wasn't identical to the syllabus, they struggle.

Now those guys from the latter camp might well be great at doing new installs, as they just install what they were taught, but can find themselves struggling to understand what's going on when they go to a job on an old installation where something is not working, and struggle to understand how it should work, let alone find out why it doesn't.

I suspect a higher percentage of 5DW fall into that latter category, and a higher percentage of the former category knew from an early age that electrics was their thing and left school into an apprenticeship.

 

[sparky b]

Drives me nuts this and i'd probably be banned if I wrote down what I think of 5 week wonders/Domestic InstallersWhat really ****es me off is that 5ww call themselves electricians, they're not and they should be taken to court by trading standards if they do

Why's that then??

 

[ivixxiv]

Thats a very good point, the other thing thats wrong is the scams should advertise the fact on their id card if they are proper electricians or a 5WWBut that would not be favourable on them in the eyes of joe public who are like mushrooms.....

That is what it should be i.e. an electricians license, all the scams can have there own logo (as that is what they will want). But a 5ww should only be allowed to do domestic with heavier control than they do now (for e.g you only have to see the recent post about the 1 1/2hr Napit inspection)

Domestic Installers should also never be let anywhere near commercial/industrial

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 20:51 ---------- Previous post was made at 20:50 ----------

Why's that then??

Because they're not electricians, they're domestic installers.

this is part of an email I received from elecsa, where I asked/had a go about there entry requirements

I can only give you the company view on this matter, which is that the minimum entry onto the scheme is that they have a 17th edition qualification. They still have to prove competency in the site work and their testing ability, as does any new applicant. I totally understand your argument/comments though as I myself am a time served electrician with some nearly 30 years experience. We do make these types of applicants aware that they will be classed as domestic installer