5 week wonder, urban myth?

[Smilers]

This thread will never end lol!

Although I will add a while back I worked for a company and one of the project managers who had been a sparks for 35 odd years, now he carried out private works on the side and had set up his own company on a part time basis, this is his 3rd company I'm told.

Anyway he asked me to give him a hand one weekend to get some PiR's done and hopefully get some remedial works off the back of the tests.

He managed to get some work off the tests and also asked me to help with the replacement of various accessories , smokes and fans etc.

Now as he was my project manager at work my attendance was that of a grunt with a box of tools basically just to speed the process up and to add some extra cash to my hip at the weekend.

He used all the Certs on his works laptop to record the I&T findings. Which I thought was a little naughty but I thought wind your neck in its not your concern! Anyway we went outside for a fag whilst on the 1st job and were chatting only to find out no PL and PI insurance ,LABC not aware of the CU change etc -high ho silver!! I finished the rest of that day off and every time afterwards he asked I was busy doing something else until he stopped asking!

Now for a very experienced sparks who I'm sure is well aware of current legislation as he was our QS NICEIC just couldn't give 2 hoots about legitimate certification or good working practises,Notification or the worst case the homeowner gets a heavy fine.

There are good and bad sparks out there and at what point do you become an (ELECTRICIAN)??? Who knows! Personally I don't care how long others have been working wether it be 5 weeks or 35 years I really don't see that it is my issue and I think there will always be a form of snobbery between time served sparks and 5ww's it will never change.

You will always have DIYers and Europeans hashing electrics

There should be harsher punishments for non competent tradesmen and that I think should be across the board!

Being time served should make you competent but I'm sure we have all met 1 that wasn't. As I'm sure there are many very competent 5ww's.

I don't think you should generalise competence or incompetence it's almost electrical racism.

 

[Manator]

very nice post Smilers, I think about it like this, its not how you were trained its all down to your morals. I know almost every poster on this forum is morally sound, they beleive that what they do is to the best of their ability, and to regulation and above all safe. So that when they go home they can sleep in comfort knowing what they did that day is not going to cause any injury.You will always find sharks in this trade, and they come in all walks of life.

 

[Guy]

Wish I hadn't started this thread, I was already worried about breaking into the industry and getting a wage, now I am really concerned after looking at many of the opinions here, I think that my c.v is gonna be straight into the bin on many of my applications.

 

[Zeespark]

Guy, an esteemed colleague on here once quoted 'Experience is NEVER wasted' (Steptoe), stick with it, it will be worth it in the end.

AndyGuinness

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I am a 5 week wonder (12 actually) and do not consider myself to be an electrician yet (mate/improver) and I did not get the impression that any of my fellow students were gonna go out into the world with a 'IM SUPER SPARK AND KNOW NO LIMITS' attitude, how did the shake'n'bake crew get such a bad rep? Real life examples would be great.

The question you are asking is the wrong one, the length of time you attend training courses is of minimal relevance...

(as is if anyone has any real life examples..???)

The question is all about COMPETENCE....

Many members moan about the approved contractor schemes being just about the money..

Well that is true of many colleges, and private training companies...

Bum's on seats pays the tutors wages..

Pass rates give the impression of quality teaching..

Passing exams does not by itself make you competent...

Greater number of private training companies churning out non-competent persons is where the bad reputation comes from...

BUT there have always been and always will be non-competent persons working alone in peoples homes..

who realy should NOT be out there!!!

The Competence question was already asked on this thread here:-

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/general-chat-area/15923-what-makes-you-competant-3.html

and I still stand by my comments on post #31 of that thread!

copied below for those to lazy to look!

Competence?Right first of all my dictionary says:

 

[Guy]

Very valid points and I agree wholeheartedly, I am level 3 but am applying for mate/improver/labour jobs as I fall into many of the catagories stated above. I am thinking that it would be fairer if the trend of this thread was not 'I hate 5ww' but 'I hate 5ww who don't know their limits'

 

[sparky b]

Or 'I hate anyone in the electrical industry that don't know their limits..'

 

[Theorysparky]

i have just read the first two pages of this thread and decided to ignore the rest

For you newbies to the forum i am a 5WW

been doing it for five years now

if you want to do a search on previous threads you will find my background

I DO NOT work on 3 phase kit i do not know enuff

spent plenty of time 'onsite' as a mate

i have worked fully supervised on 3 phase boards

at the present time im sorting out a bungalow extension that has been wired by an AC (not tarring them) its pants

so it cuts both ways

by the way i joined a scam after 2 years......

am i happy to house bash or fix a faulty light fitting ????? then yes

but i do disagree with 5WW trying to do industrial stuff on the back of a few weeks theory..........

........ sorry for the rant

 

[ivixxiv]

i have just read the first two pages of this thread and decided to ignore the restFor you newbies to the forum i am a 5WW

been doing it for five years now

if you want to do a search on previous threads you will find my background

I DO NOT work on 3 phase kit i do not know enuff

spent plenty of time 'onsite' as a mate

i have worked fully supervised on 3 phase boards

at the present time im sorting out a bungalow extension that has been wired by an AC (not tarring them) its pants

so it cuts both ways

by the way i joined a scam after 2 years......

am i happy to house bash or fix a faulty light fitting ????? then yes

but i do disagree with 5WW trying to do industrial stuff on the back of a few weeks theory..........

........ sorry for the rant

The issue (imo) isn't the 5ww itself, it's the scope of work they can undertake

Commercial/industrial should be limited to JIB sparks (and yes JIB have issues with not approving time served electricians who haven't done there NVQ3) and any new DI should be strictly monitored during there first year

DI's should never be allowed to advertise as "electricians" and that is the crux of the problem JIB like it or not is a universally known "achievement", try getting on site with your NICIEC Part P course and 2392

 

[Theorysparky]

as a mate easy peasy

but as an electrican then no

all io needed was the 17th cert

 

[ivixxiv]

all io needed was the 17th cert

And there's the problem (not you but with the industry) - Alls you need to be a DI or an AC is 17th Edition

JIB missed a huge trick when Part P came in

 

[batty]

The issue (imo) isn't the 5ww itself, it's the scope of work they can undertakeCommercial/industrial should be limited to JIB sparks (and yes JIB have issues with not approving time served electricians who haven't done there NVQ3) and any new DI should be strictly monitored during there first year

DI's should never be allowed to advertise as "electricians" and that is the crux of the problem JIB like it or not is a universally known "achievement", try getting on site with your NICIEC Part P course and 2392

But its not that easy to say you need to be JIB. My career i trained as an electrician when i left school for around three years. It was in the milk snatchers years when apprenticeships were being phased out so the people i worked for would not allow the college route. I did other another job for fifteen years then got back into the electrics. I did five years evening classes to get my qualifications. I went self employed and built my business up did some subbing and also worked with other sparks to get experience. I do a bit of three phase and have done some big jobs. So should i tell my customers i can't do three phase because i am not JIB registered.

 

[ivixxiv]

But its not that easy to say you need to be JIB. My career i trained as an electrician when i left school for around three years. It was in the milk snatchers years when apprenticeships were being phased out so the people i worked for would not allow the college route. I did other another job for fifteen years then got back into the electrics. I did five years evening classes to get my qualifications. I went self employed and built my business up did some subbing and also worked with other sparks to get experience. I do a bit of three phase and have done some big jobs. So should i tell my customers i can't do three phase because i am not JIB registered.

Controversial, but you shouldn't (three phase) but thats the fault of the industry, you're just taking advantage of the loop holes

JIB isn't a difficult thing to achieve and if you want to be called an electrician thats the only away to go

 

[batty]

So who says i have to be JIB approved to do three phase. I am registered under BSI to do commercial work are you saying i should not be registered.

 

[ivixxiv]

So who says i have to be JIB approved to do three phase. I am registered under BSI to do commercial work are you saying i should not be registered.

To do commercial you don't need to be registered with anyone (go figure)

Being a member of a scheme is worthless, as their entry requirements show. If you're a DI/5ww you should only be allowed to do domestic.

This isn't a dig at you just the industry as a whole, like it or not JIB is the last vestige of true competence left in the industry/trade

 

[sparky b]

Is or was???

 

[Smilers]

What are the requirements to gain the NVQ?

Something alone the lines of complete a portfolio with 3 pieces of work covering key points through out?? Then you get an assessor out for a couple of hours to look at the job your on ATM and ask some questions - which seems similar to the scan assessment but prob with less testing!

So what would stop you making 3 fictitious jobs, dummy photos, mocked up risk assessments etc and get your mate to sign them off - the NVQ assessor asks Q:can I speak to your electrical supervisor A: I'm sorry the company where i did my portfolio has liquidated and I can't contact anybody there- I am subbing to another electrician ( a mate) can I have my assessment on one of his jobs?

So then JIB will certify you as an electrician?? And work on 3-phase??

JIB registration does not prove competence either IMO- only that you have provided proof of qualifications and passed a H&S multiple guess

 

[ivixxiv]

Is or was???

Probably is, try getting a JIB/ECS card or work on site with a Part P qualification

 

[ivixxiv]

Id best go get a job at Tescos then :slap I really don't like the JIB, there grading system and to be honest it certainly doesn't make you an industrial electrician

The JIB card is not and never will be the holy grail ROTFWL

Been there, done that, had one, sent it back.....

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 00:45 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:38 ----------

Disagree "was" is more apt

Had one sent it back is your choice.

My point is construction sites (rightly) see it as being a true electrician, I'd love to see a 5ww on an AM2 exam or getting a job on site with their part p course/2392

 

[batty]

I work on construction sites maybe not large ones but have never had a problem without a JIB card. I did work on a 120 bed hotel job once and didn't have a JIB card then either. I honestly cannot see why i would need one.