9 bedroom house to rewire!!

[buzzlightyear2014]

Evening all!

Thought I'd come on here to ask the question as I'm struggling to come up with an answer myself.

Basically I've been to look at a 9 bedroom house, all with en-suites etc, kitchen, entrance hall, dining room, library, study, conservatory, utility room, laundry etc etc that will require rewiring. It will be for labour only as they will be supplying all materials.

Does anybody have any idea as to a very rough price?? It will be an estimate to the customer as it's huge!!

Thanks in advance :signthankspin:

 

[Adrian]

How long is a piece of string ect ect ect

 

[apprentice87]

Three times the price of a three bedroom house??? I have no idea, i should think it would be much more expensive than the norm though.. What sort of supply they got for a start off??

How you planning on doing it?? Are not some of the circuits going to be rather long??

john..

 

[Sidewinder]

Daywork, that way they can have any changes they want as things go along, and it gives both parties flexibility.

After all you are not making any profit on the materials.

 

[buzzlightyear2014]

It has an upgraded 3 phase supply already into the house. It will be multiple consumer units throughtout due to circuit size.

I did wonder just multiplying a 3 bed house by 3, but it's huge!! so I reckon a lot more I'm thinking it's going to be at least £15k + ???

Daywork, that way they can have any changes they want as things go along, and it gives both parties flexibility.

After all you are not making any profit on the materials.

Any idea on how long you'd think??

 

[Andy™]

4 month if they keep changing there mind where they want the sockets

 

[buzzlightyear2014]

4 month if they keep changing there mind where they want the sockets

Always guaranteed!

 

[Evans Electric]

Hi  Buzz,     I appreciate your hesitation  because its a bigger property ,  however I had a few years of estimating & supervising  and  your job could become  a nightmare if you're not careful .  

Before I go on , I'd give Sidewinder's advice some thought  and work out , if you havn't already , your hourly daywork rate .

Some questions :-

1.  Are the electrics being designed by an engineer / consultant  with  drawings & specification produced  ?

2. Will the job be project managed by someone competent ?

3. Or will it be managed by the well off , posho owners  who know bugger all about what it involves  and like Andy says ,  will they be changing everything from day to day  because they've seen the TV shows where everything gets done by "magic". ? 

4.  Will you be expected to be designing & installing  " on the hoof"  ?

None of us can give you a price Buzz, without  seeing the place and the drawings and the extent of any building works  that may be involved . other trades etc.      

We did this place two yrs ago , it became a nightmare ,  owner supplying the gear ,  owner running the project , organizing trades , all in the wrong order...do a weeks work , owner's wife & daughter appear and start changing everything ..........   always one step forward , two steps back .   This was six bedrooms .  

 

[ProDave]

I allow 1 hour per "point". go and count up how many "points" they want. It rarely goes over an hour at least not on a new build.  Property construction has to be taken into account, 99% of what I do is timber framed for instance.

Factor in is it empty and having a full refurb (so no carpets, other trades got boards up) or is it occupied, carpeted and furnished?

3 phase, 3 single phase submains around the property breaks it up into manageable chunks.

 

[Evans Electric]

Oh just thought  !!! :C       If Specs sees this  photo  he'll now know that its NOT Dekington Towers  !!!  

THIS is Dekington Towers ....very very similar to the place I mentioned above. 

 

[Murdoch]

I would be very wary of agreeing to do such a job without control of what parts you are installing.

RCBO board is a must ......

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Evening all!

Thought I'd come on here to ask the question as I'm struggling to come up with an answer myself.

Basically I've been to look at a 9 bedroom house, all with en-suites etc, kitchen, entrance hall, dining room, library, study, conservatory, utility room, laundry etc etc that will require rewiring. It will be for labour only as they will be supplying all materials.

Does anybody have any idea as to a very rough price?? It will be an estimate to the customer as it's huge!!

Thanks in advance :signthankspin:

Hmmmm...  My initial thoughts are.. 

any person asking for any sort of rough price for a job when all the information given consists of approx. 90 words.......

is a complete an utter buffoon and should be in a job that only requires selling Big Issue on a street corner or similar....

But Obviously Buzzlightbeer2014 you are NOT actually asking for a rough price....

You are actually  asking for a few tips about how you can work out a price yourself.. aren't you?   :Salute  

So....

You mention labour only...

BUT first of all.

1/   Have you got to supply a list of materials for the customer or are they supplying and designing the whole set-up themselves?

(a) If you have got to supply a list, start off with a few hours worth of labour for consultancy fees for your design and calculations time..

(b) If they are supplying the list...  ask for a copy of their materials schedule so you can count up how many accessories, circuits distribution boards etc..  they are planning.

and use the sort of principal ProDave suggests..  1 Hour per point.

2/  IT DOESN'T MATER HOW BIG ANY JOB IS...  They are all just circuits (final or sub-main) connected back to distribution boards...

If you are able to calculate costs for a single circuit job, (e.g. garden shed supply / new cooker or shower circuit etc..),  then its just a case of multiply the same process for however many circuits the job needs.

3/ Any final circuit is just simply a protective device in a distribution board, a length of cable, a quantity of accessories or fixed loads.

Add up the time you need to connect the bits they are suggesting.

4/ Any sub main circuit is simply a protective device in a distribution board, a length of cable, then another distribution board.

Think of the cable length, cable size, installation method, etc...  to work out how long you realistically think it will take....

5/ DO NOT DO ANY WORK on this sort of job without some form of written agreement about payment terms before you commence...

this can save loads of hassle later if things start to go pear shaped.

6/ Don't forget to allow time for inspection and testing and compiling your electrical certificates..

7/  Far better to put in a bigger more realistic price and work with a reasonable buffer...

than to put in a stupidly low price and work at a loss!!

8/  ALWAYS REMEMBER...   you are a business.....   Jobs with little or no profit result in business failure !!!

Jobs with reasonable profit = business keeps running longer!!

9/  Some customers are bad payers... some customers are good payers...

cash-flow can kill a company with a full order book...

So..  On a larger jobs make sure you factor in suitable interim payments...

OR DRIED UP CASH-FLOW WILL KILL YOUR BUSINESS!!!

10/ If the customer is not happy with written agreements then......

RUNAWAY!!  :run

11/   Can't think of much more at the moment....   too many Guinness Guinness Guinness   

But I am sure you get the gist....?

:Salute

 

[pewter]

A big job is lots of little jobs.

I break everything down to area /room, 

         lounge - 4 dbl sockets, 1x pendant - 8 hrs labour,  £50 materials.. etc

Then if i need to ammend original quote i can add +£50 extra double socket or -£30 1 less double socket.

my time estimated is for that exact job, i dont have £ per point formular.

so many variables to consider for each different job.

Day/hourly rate is safe,

Sometimes i offer my estimated hours x £hourly rate = customer pays exact hours worked

or i offer a fixed price of, (my estimate hours x £hourly rate)x1.2=for my fixed price.

they always take the estimate.

It costs what it costs, big house means big bills. I just did a 4 bed labour only that came to £6500ish in the end.

 

[kerching]

The client is supplying ALL materials?.....good luck with that one

stuff will be wrong, you will be refitting, schedule changes due to unforeseen circumstances so the material you HAVE for what you WERE going to do may not be suitable for what you NOW have to do...more lost time

project managed by house owner or Architect?....both. will end in tears...but one will be 'cost plus 10%'

architect .  From the Greek archi...........meaning bloke.   And the Latin 'tect' ....meaning "knows nothing"'

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Oh just thought  !!! :C       If Specs sees this  photo  he'll now know that its NOT Dekington Towers  !!!  

THIS is Dekington Towers ....very very similar to the place I mentioned above. 

View attachment 8718

View attachment 8717

Obviously TWO different properties....

Dekingon towers and that rewire job you did!!!!  opcorn

:C

 

[Murdoch]

How much faith would the op have in the customer getting all the correct parts, at the correct time or are they expecting you to write the list?

 

[UNG]

The problem with this type of job is making sure all the hidden planning and preparation hours worked are paid for not just the onsite hours

All the replies seem to just concentrate on the "electric points" but what about TV, sat, CCTV, intruder alarm, telephone and data cabling even if it is just the provision of conduits or other containment

This sounds like it is going to be the typical triplicate book job it needs to have all the layouts marked up as the starting point then any variations are noted and signed for as the job moves on saves any arguments with the client over missing sockets, lighting points or anything else they can think of.

The clients wouldn't it be nice if variations can end up costing you and not the client a lot of money if you don't have a clear agreement and can be further complicated by taking verbal instructions onsite from those who think they have a vested interest in the end result from past experience it is generally better to channel all variations through the person who is paying to avoid the end of job "he said she said"

Done a few of these jobs over the years on one the client had the guest bedroom fitted out three times, the master bedroom twice with the on-suite change three times the third variation included a 15Kw shower/steam room which tipped the mains supply over it's capacity the guy seemed to have more money than sense and it was all paid for so there was no problem you just didn't know the end date to move on to the next job

 

[ProDave]

Watch out in the spec for the customer miss describing things.

e.g a loft conversion the spec said a "boiler" was going in a cupboard in the newly converted loft.

When it turned up, the "boiler" was actually a dual immersion heater off peak hot water tank.

 

[binky]

with a property like you descibe, they are bound to want 'bells and whistles' in every room, so forget your 3 bed house price, it will bear little resemblence even if multiplied by 3.

As stated above, get some form of contactural arrangment, even if it's just an e-mail, but make sure payment terms are in there.  I would stick to a day rate, you may offer an estimated cost to the customer, but make it clear, it is an estimate. Be very wary of long payment terms and bills stacking up towards the end of a job.

Be very clear on generic parts like cable, clips, screws etc etc - customers seem to forget these items.

I would also Google search the client for any previous bad history and talk to your wholesalers, a very useful mine of information on bad payers....

 

[apprentice87]

Yes, seems to me to have more in common with a commercial job like wiring a hospital than a house.

I would be very not happy with the client buying the bits.. As has been said, they will all be the wrong stuff, as, if they knew enough to be able to get the right stuff, then they would be able to wire it all themselves anyway..

I too, would be very very careful..

john..