A job I don't want.

[ProDave]

As many of you may know I'm self employed and don't want to work full time.

So one of the builders I work for called me for a chat today to look at a tender he's putting together. This is the builder that builds eco homes as portable buildings.

He's considering whether to tender for 21 hotel bedroom "modules" Each one will be built as a single portable building and when delivered to site will be stacked up as three rows of 7 hotel rooms.

Then I started reading the very detailed spec. from the architect / designer. They want it all wired in LSF singles in steel conduit. Except for the AV and data wiring which can go in PVC conduit. Then they start telling me how it's all going to be powered. They want three circuits in each module. but the wording is very confusing. they don't want a CU with each module, but for each circuit to terminate in a "din rail enclosure" and them nulticore SWA back to an existing plant room. The contractor is responsible for all that cabling back to the plant room some distance away.

Then there's mention of a Ving door card entry system to be wired by somebody "qualified" by Assa Abloy to install that. Sounds like I might have to do a short course.

Then I start reading the documentation they need. Certificates for everything not just the wiring.

I'm doing my best to convince the builder it's a potential can or worms with enough clauses for some serious "contractor bashing" if they are in any way unhappy.

My concerns:

Me (or the builder) is going to have to buy the tools for steel conduit work (I've not done any since I've been self employed and in previous employment my employer had all the tools. not that I did much then)

LSF singles? that's not ordinary single conduit cable then. I've had a quick search and not found any yet.

No local circuit protection, instead multicore SWA to a plant room. I loose confidence in the architect or designer when they specify a 10A type C MCB for the lighting circuit for instance (the lighting is no more than 6 light fittings, 4 of which are specified to have LED lamps)

The "qualifications" they ask for to install the card entry system. Sounds like a basis for non payment if you are not "qualified" so sounds like a short course to get "qualified" for that.

And the size of the job. My builder reckons it would be 6 months solid work for him to build these modules and taking into account the conduit work easily 6 months work to wire them.

Your thoughts guys.

 

[PC Electrics]

Stretch Polaski, our local friendly 10ft Pole, says he wouldn't touch it.

There are many ways to skin a cat, but it sounds like someone thinks they are an electrical designer when they are not.

 

[betty swollocks]

I don't want it either

Sounds more like a vocation than a job

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Lsf is a pig of a job to wire as it sticks to other cables and the conduit. Have to slap tons of yellow 77 or tallow on it.

 

[alpha spark]

Sounds to me to be a pita job especially by the sound of the spec could u not turn it down or would that upset your builder or sub the conduit part of it out if u don't want to be on it for that length of time

 

[ProDave]

Yes I could turn it down flat. But hoping not to be put in that position. I was more trying to convince my builder friend that this project is likely to be more hassle than it's worth and not to tender for it. Nothing anyone has said has changed my thinking, in fact it's just firmed up my belief this is one I don't want.

If he does tender and get the job, I will seriously be looking for some help, or even to pass the whole job to someone else.

 

[steptoe]

when he asks you for a price Dave, go in at something stupid, that way if you dont get it all is good, if you do then it is worth your while to either do it or pass it on.

 

[Steve3948]

Conduit work is fine, providing they don't start stipulating no runners allowed, it then starts making life hard work.

Sounds like a nice project, providing a decent B&Q is specified and you don't have to take it off plan.

I would say go for it add 20% then sub it out if you don't want it, should you get it.

 

[ProDave]

Indeed Step's. the price will have to include the tooling I need.

I'm trying to convince him the job is too big for him. He seems to be getting a steady amount of work to keep his gang busy. The current build (a 4 section portable building) is destined for a caravan site trying to promote eco friendly units, with the potential for many more units on that site.

I've seen it several times before, a company gets ambitions plans to expand way too fast, and it always ends in tears when the big projects dry up and they are left with too many staff, large premises and overheads, and little or no orders.

 

[ROADESPARKY]

Have done modular work with galv conduit in the walls before. Not a problem. LSF singles are normal spec for a lot of jobs like this as for a 10A mcb for lighting it's fine as 1.5mm can carry more than 10A. The mcb protects the cable. As long as he sticks to the spec should be fine. The way work is now days 6 months would be very comforting.

As for tools I've hired from Eds before at a rediculous low price. As for door entry let the builder source a company to do that but normally they like the sparks to do containment.

 

[kerching]

After 35 and more years in the trade, may i proffer this advice?

If it 'feels' like it is going to be a PITA job then reach for the 'preparation H' as 99.9999% of the time a 'gut feeling' is correct

 

[ROADESPARKY]

Where abouts are you? Know a few people around various parts that do this work all the time if you needed help.

 

[kerching]

Thats how design works then ? :shakehead

Yep, cracked it in one.

2 wires...lecktrickery goes in one wire....does the biz.....lecktrickery comes out of the other wire; how hard can it be?

Admittedly some of us get 'good coin' for the inbetween bit!

OK that was a bit on the strong side but I have had a carp day and need to vent my spleen

My spleen has now been vented slightly : bad day explode

 

[steptoe]

plenty of busy fools in this job Dave,

tradesmen like yourself dont need it.

 

[ProDave]

Where abouts are you? Know a few people around various parts that do this work all the time if you needed help.

Ross-Shire in the Highlands. That's North of Inverness. (you would be surprised how many people think Ross Shire is near Ross on Wye)

 

[Sharpend]

Why not collaborate with door entry specialist to price then you act as main contractor and oversee the subbies. ??

 

[ROADESPARKY]

A bit to north for me Dave. Although have worked in Inverness before. Was a bit of a trek from home. Canoe - was not trying to be cockey just making a comment. Can't remember the last time I was speced a 6A on a lighting circuit. Not knowing people's experience try to make it simple.

 

[kme]

Sounds like a "think of a price...............................then double it" sort of job, tbh.Plus, if you query enough of the designers carp; they`ll decide YOU`RE the pita; and won`t want you to do it, anyway :slap

 

[ROADESPARKY]

It's not for Caladonian is it?

 

[Evans Electric]

Dave , as regards conduit tools , you'd get a pipe vice/bender on Fleabay or similar then all you'd need is stocks 'n' dies . I'm sure you have grips , hacksaw etc . LSF is'nt a problem .

I wouldn't want the job myself , tied to a production schedule , I'd be bored to death TBH . And you need to know that the construction of the modules is compatible with steel conduit .

You won't be able to go sailing when you want ...good grief man ...they'll have you clocking on next FFS .