Another reason to avoid Smart!

[Sharpend]

Wow, whose lost control now……..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63554879

 

[Murdoch]

theres a product opportunity for somebody - a smart meter blocker

 

[johnb2713]

I dont agree with 'Another reason to avoid smart', Smart Meters are a good thing IMHO, surely even in the case cited above, it saves the energy company money by not having massive debtors and not incurring costs getting a warrant etc. Overall better for everyone.

 

[Sharpend]

I dont agree with 'Another reason to avoid smart', Smart Meters are a good thing IMHO, surely even in the case cited above, it saves the energy company money by not having massive debtors and not incurring costs getting a warrant etc. Overall better for everyone.

You tell that to those who can’t afford the inflated prices through no fault of their own.

 

[Geoff1946]

I dont agree with 'Another reason to avoid smart', Smart Meters are a good thing IMHO, surely even in the case cited above, it saves the energy company money by not having massive debtors and not incurring costs getting a warrant etc. Overall better for everyone.

As one of the sceptics who is resisting as long as I can:
Looking purely at the technical aspects you are correct in saying there CAN be advantages on both sides.
However, I don't have your need for sophisticated micro-generation system; I just have a simple system paying me a good FIT.

One of the main things which puts me off is the sheer dishonesty of their marketing campaign. Basically it claims that a SM will save you money on your energy. That is untrue unless you choose to change your habits to use less energy, - which you can equally do without SM.
There is further dishonesty in what is NOT freely promoted. The ability for remote disconnection and longer term plan for variable tariffs.
This devious approach makes me wonder what else is being concealed? _ Well unchallenged switching to prepay is obviously one thing. How secure is the control from either accidental or malicious interference? What redress do I have if I am disconnected for any reason?
Why should I take (any) risk when my present meter is totally adequate?
As the advantage to me is absolutely minimal, I choose to walk away, just as I would from a suspect car dealership.

 

[Murdoch]

Too many people simply lost any control over their consumption and costs but not understanding their bills and not reading their meters

This situation has been exploited by the providers

 

[binky]

I dont agree with 'Another reason to avoid smart', Smart Meters are a good thing IMHO, surely even in the case cited above, it saves the energy company money by not having massive debtors and not incurring costs getting a warrant etc. Overall better for everyone.

Now, if they just charged for exactly what you use with smart meters, instead of holding on to your money and earning interest in their bank account... I see little advantage in getting a smart meter, especially as they charge the government £450 per meter install.

 

[johnb2713]

As one of the sceptics who is resisting as long as I can:
Looking purely at the technical aspects you are correct in saying there CAN be advantages on both sides.
However, I don't have your need for sophisticated micro-generation system; I just have a simple system paying me a good FIT.

I have no issues with that, FIT as you know is no longer available and it really was madness in reality.

One of the main things which puts me off is the sheer dishonesty of their marketing campaign. Basically it claims that a SM will save you money on your energy. That is untrue unless you choose to change your habits to use less energy, - which you can equally do without SM.

Agreed it should say can help to save you money. Marketing however is trying to sell it to you, just like the car you have and the published impossible mpg figures.

There is further dishonesty in what is NOT freely promoted. The ability for remote disconnection and longer term plan for variable tariffs.

It would be a very odd marketing ploy to promote potential negative aspects. Do you think JLR would add a bullet point on the Range Rover marketing - Main dealers labour rates £165 per hour, one of the most unreliable cars in the world?

This devious approach makes me wonder what else is being concealed? _ Well unchallenged switching to prepay is obviously one thing. How secure is the control from either accidental or malicious interference? What redress do I have if I am disconnected for any reason?

Why would anyone want to hack Smart Meters and switch them off, where is their gain? Redress for disconnection would depend on the reason surely?

Why should I take (any) risk when my present meter is totally adequate?
As the advantage to me is absolutely minimal, I choose to walk away, just as I would from a suspect car dealership.

Is someone holding a gun to your head to make you have a Smart Meter? I doubt it, enjoy your caveman meter until such time Smart Meters are mandatory.

 

[johnb2713]

Too many people simply lost any control over their consumption and costs but not understanding their bills and not reading their meters

This situation has been exploited by the providers

Who are you talking about as 'providers' ?

 

[johnb2713]

You tell that to those who can’t afford the inflated prices through no fault of their own.

You have to live within your means, I went through a very rough patch 15 years ago, nearly lost my house and almost bankrupt. I had to cut back on everything including energy but I didnt have any bailouts from the government or expect free energy. I cut cloth according to my means and very slowly dug myself out of a massive hole.
If they cant afford the inflated prices, theyre using too much, it's a fairly simple thing understand, they have to cut down their usage, use what they do more efficiently etc. Why should I have to bail them out?
The energy companies are the ones that should be doing something to bring prices down, a windfall tax on their excessive profits would be a start but the real answer is all of our infrastructure, Generation, Distribution, Rail, Comms, Gas etc should be nationalised. The government could then control energy costs directly.

 

[UNG]

If they cant afford the inflated prices, theyre using too much, it's a fairly simple thing understand, they have to cut down their usage, use what they do more efficiently etc. Why should I have to bail them out?

It's very likely you have already subsidised someone's energy bills when some of the energy providers went bust

 

[johnb2713]

It's very likely you have already subsidised someone's energy bills when some of the energy providers went bust

Yes this is true and if they can switch supplies off when people 'cant afford' electricity that will help to reduce their losses and thus make them less likely to go bust thereby reducing the support needed from me.

 

[Murdoch]

It's very likely you have already subsidised someone's energy bills when some of the energy providers went bust

Actually WE ARE ALL subsidising for the failures - that is why the standing charge went up so much and lets get real, I doubt it'll ever come down again

 

[Murdoch]

Who are you talking about as 'providers' ?

Suppliers / providers

 

[ProDave]

Yes this is true and if they can switch supplies off when people 'cant afford' electricity that will help to reduce their losses and thus make them less likely to go bust thereby reducing the support needed from me.

When did the law change then?

Previously they needed a court order to disconnect someone in arrears.

Now they have implemented this "we can change you to pre pay without seeking permission" and then when you don't top up, your lights go out.

 

[Geoff1946]

I have no issues with that, FIT as you know is no longer available and it really was madness in reality.


Agreed it should say can help to save you money. Marketing however is trying to sell it to you, just like the car you have and the published impossible mpg figures.


It would be a very odd marketing ploy to promote potential negative aspects. Do you think JLR would add a bullet point on the Range Rover marketing - Main dealers labour rates £165 per hour, one of the most unreliable cars in the world?


Why would anyone want to hack Smart Meters and switch them off, where is their gain? Redress for disconnection would depend on the reason surely?


Is someone holding a gun to your head to make you have a Smart Meter? I doubt it, enjoy your caveman meter until such time Smart Meters are mandatory.

Not yet, but I forsee it happening probably through punishing tariffs. In the meantime, yes I will enjoy my good old meter.

 

[binky]

Actually WE ARE ALL subsidising for the failures - that is why the standing charge went up so much and lets get real, I doubt it'll ever come down again

Correct, but shareholders still get their dividends....

Must be nice to have a business where you can pass on the losses from taking on bad customers to all the other customers, and the costs of failed private companies that the directors no doubt got well paid for running badly.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

You have to live within your means, I went through a very rough patch 15 years ago, nearly lost my house and almost bankrupt. I had to cut back on everything including energy but I didnt have any bailouts from the government or expect free energy. I cut cloth according to my means and very slowly dug myself out of a massive hole.
If they cant afford the inflated prices, theyre using too much, it's a fairly simple thing understand, they have to cut down their usage, use what they do more efficiently etc. Why should I have to bail them out?
The energy companies are the ones that should be doing something to bring prices down, a windfall tax on their excessive profits would be a start but the real answer is all of our infrastructure, Generation, Distribution, Rail, Comms, Gas etc should be nationalised. The government could then control energy costs directly.

I understand an element of what you are saying John..
We also had a pretty rough patch quite a few years back... [To many bills to pay.. AND not enough money coming in....]

Various adjustments needed to be implemented..

But one significant bit of advice we were given by our bank manager..
After having numerous extra bank charges added due to exceeding overdraft limits etc..
because of some Direct Debits trying to be paid but rebounding..
Especially when our energy supplier had decided to increase our monthly DD payments because they decided our average consumption + their projected fees would need more money per month!!!

So the advice given was to Stop ALL direct debits to energy suppliers and just pay their bills when they come in..
As it is not uncommon for several energy companies to build up excessive credits from customers money...
Using payments you have NO control over the value debited.. [ this happens with both smart & standard meters ].

Whereas if you are a bit late paying your energy bill the late payment fees are often much less than bank charges for exceeding an overdraft!!!

Now, if they just charged for exactly what you use with smart meters, instead of holding on to your money and earning interest in their bank account... I see little advantage in getting a smart meter, especially as they charge the government £450 per meter install.

ONLY if you are paying by monthly direct debit...
If you just "Pay-As-You-Go" you can hold onto their owed money for a few extra days!!!

We've had 'smart meters' since June 2008... never had a problem...

Except when the electricity meter "went round the clock".. 99999 back to zero.. and it couldn't correctly calculate the consumption anymore..!?!?
So we had a few months of estimated bills. till a new (hopefully a little bit smarter), meter was fitted..

In laymans terms we can see pretty much 99.999% accurate consumption on a monthly basis..
and I set up a monthly standing order to pay what I recon is 80% "ish+" of my average bill, calculated by ME..
I then just pay any adjustments by bank transfer, if and/or when, they send me an outstanding balance email!

My basic thinking is.... If I can suss out my car fuel consumption and weekly food bills and all of my suppliers work trade accounts, etc..
without the need for Average monthly direct debits calculated by the supplier...
Then I am pretty sure I can manage my Gas & Electric in the same way as Food / Car fuel / Trade accounts etc..

The underlying problem for the majority of the general public is..
While they may know how much they are paying..
They rarely have much idea about how much they are consuming...??????
and if that consumption is up or down on previous years/months consumption?

Basically it is not "Smart Meters" that is the fundamental problem..
It IS "Dumb Customers"!

 

[johnb2713]

So the advice given was to Stop ALL direct debits to energy suppliers and just pay their bills when they come in..

Yep, been there, done that got the T-Shirt

As it is not uncommon for several energy companies to build up excessive credits from customers money...

Before moving to Octopus we were with Together Energy, I had major problems with TE, our balance was -£5,500 at one point, they hadnt sent any bills, no statements just kept increasing our DD. Eventually having got nowhere dealing with them directly I went to the ombudsman. The amount of our balance was more than the total electricity showing on our meter (including the 10 years before TE with British Gas) which proved completely that they were wrong. I had entered all of the readings I took weekly onto a spreadsheet which showed we were £1600 in credit rather than £5500 in debit. We had also been prevented from leaving TE to go to Octopus when I got my EV, I gave TE fair warning that I would charge them the difference between the 5p kWh Octopus charged overnight and the 18p TE charged. The Ombudsman found in our favour that my calculations were correct ordering TE to refund the total credit balance, they upheld my claim for vehicle charging and awarded compensation of £350. TE still didnt cough up so I used Small Claims Court and got paid.

Using payments you have NO control over the value debited.. [ this happens with both smart & standard meters ].

The decent companies do generally build up a balance over the summer which then decreases over winter to even out cashflow. Octopus give the customer direct control of direct debits, you are free to set the amount yourself. I have set mine higher than it needed to be back in April to build up a balance for winter. It would be nice if you could build a balance of kWh instead of £££ LOL. At least with a Smart Meter you have the option to pay what you have used every month.

It IS "Dumb Customers"!

Hallelujah to that, it really is the main issue.

 

[Murdoch]

Basically it is not "Smart Meters" that is the fundamental problem..
It IS "Dumb Customers"!

Hit, nail and head.

About 3 months ago on the Nextdoor site a lady was having a rant about her energy costs and loads of people were all saying change your supplier - so I asked if her bills were estimates or actual readings - her response - 3 x estimates, then 1 actual

No more responses on the thread

Why don't people check if the readings were estimates or actual readings - just because you have a "smart" meter, it doesn't guarantee that you will be billed for actual readings

My MIL was looking at her "app" and the costs - but her supplier wasn't giving her any bills - so I wrote an email for her to send seeking clarification - and the supplier replied quite quickly saying they had lost contact with her SM! It shouldn't take the customer to report this- surely their systems should spot this