Asbestos in fuseboards.

[Evans Electric]

I've raised this before but we have  the testing coming up again at an light industrial complex  we do around every 4 years . 

The main building has a double fronted MEM  fuseboard ,   TPN  with some 60A  ways for sub mains  then a load of 30A  .   Plus a general purpose  cell phone mast is powered from the mains . 

This board does everything in the building  but contains asbestos .  Its no good looking it up as it just says  chop all cables off &  rip it off the wall .   

What is the best action . All we ever do is a C3

 

[Andy™]

C2 for me, you will be potentially exposed if you remove the fuse for inspection or replace a blown wire etc

 

[Evans Electric]

I hear what you say Andy ,    but as my partner  keeps reminding me  ... we used to fit all this stuff back in the day  and have been  beggering about with them ever since  ....until the warnings  began to filter  through .  

We had a meeting with them about 8 years ago  but upgrading this board would shut them down for two weeks . 

We were looking at fitting two MCB trays  into the existing enclosure  .. BUT ..as Sidey would say ,  it wouldn't be a manufactured product  with all the guff that goes with it .

Also the existing fuseways would have to be removed by a licensed asbestos man in a space suit  who would also have to be electrically trained .   

I doubt we would take it  on at our advanced years  TBH  

 

[binky]

asbestos grade hoover and clean it out when you open it occasionally? Thing is, I can't think of a code that makes it electrically dangerous, but, it should be removed.

As much as I repsect the fact asbestos is dangerous, I live in a city where asbestos abounded in the dockyard - they used to have 'snow ball' fights with the most dangerous type! I do think the dangers are overstated. Howeevr you have a problem not easily solved. How about installing a new board and transferring ccts to new board? Not necessarily all at the same time, but with the view to making the old board redundant and eventually allowing it's easy removal by a specialist company?

 

[Evans Electric]

That was exactly  my partner's suggestion  TBH  .   Thing is the owners  don't want to  shell out for any of that ....they only just survived the recession   as they hire out & repair heavy  construction  equipment like  JCBs  , Caterpillar  earth movers etc .

It was  scary to see all the plant  being returned  during the recession ,    the depot  cannot store every vehicle they own ,  had to hire out farm land to park it all on  .  

 

[Rob.]

I'm not sure about mem, but the older bill fuse boards. You could get standard bs88 carriers to replace the ones with asbestos pads. 

Something to look into. Be a darn sight cheaper than replacing the board. 

I know you can argue that if you did that you're changing the circuits characteristics and thus it needs to comply with all current regs. A bit of common sense in this situation I would consider applies. 

 

[Sidewinder]

It's a C2 in my book everyday.

It's part of the electrical installation that has the potential to kill.

You should not really even open it.

They have known about it for years, so, should have planned a better solution than ignoring it by now.

Get it checked out by getting a sample taken & tested, then label it up, seal it up & walk away.

They won’t back you up if it goes wrong.

You have family to care for, you can’t do that from prison, and the CAWR can carry a prison sentence.

If you vac it out with a class H, what are you going to do with all the plastic sheet, masks, overalls etc.?

They are now hazardous waste, & that needs a special license.

Another thing that can, carry a prison term, is carrying hazardous waste without the correct procedures.

You, really need to either seal it or replace it, correctly.

The official way is cut the cables & containment outside, create an asbestos containing area, crowbar it off the wall, double bag it as hazardous asbestos waste, with the 500 gauge plastic, FFP3 masks & the suits, wet wipes used to clean up etc.

Remember too, for FFP3, you must be clean shavenn & face fitted for the mask when you are talking about potentially lethal contaminants.

Why should you, put youself at risk for their financial gain, you don’t get anything extra for it financially to make it worthwhile do you I bet.

 

[kerching]

I'm not sure about mem, but the older bill fuse boards. You could get standard bs88 carriers to replace the ones with asbestos pads. 

I think they were/are 

20A SCH2

32A SCH3

60A SCH 6

BUT as Sidney says you have the issue of opening the board, removing fuses and pads etc

i cannot see it being viable, and remember EVERYONE is out to get you and NOBODY will stand up for you when  :Hitsthefan:

 

[Rob.]

I think they were/are 

20A SCH2

32A SCH3

60A SCH 6

BUT as Sidney says you have the issue of opening the board, removing fuses and pads etc

i cannot see it being viable, and remember EVERYONE is out to get you and NOBODY will stand up for you when  :Hitsthefan:

Personally I'd just pull the fuse carriers with the asbestos pads out. Put them straight into an asbestos bag and dispose of properly. It would be considered low risk asbestos and as such wouldn't need a license. 

Asbestos needs to be treated with respect, it's not nitro glycerine though. 

Edit: Can't see if the op has mentioned where the asbestos is in the board. I'm presuming the little flash pads that fit inside the rewirable fuse holders. 

 

[Tony S]

Once the fuse carrier is removed spray the asbestos pad in the base with adhesive.

 

[Doc Hudson]

First decide how dangerous you consider it to your own health.

Then decide how dangerous you consider it to others health and liability to your insurance.

Consider the HSE guidance for removal of such distribution boards.

e.g. http://www.beware-asbestos.info/how-to-guides/removing-a-fuse-box-containing-asbestos# 

and http://www.beware-asbestos.info/sites/default/files/task-sheets/asbestos-task-sheet-a33i.pdf

Then make your decision and let the customer know your choice of action.

Doc H.

 

[ProDave]

In  lot of cases the danger is in disturbing it. Just sitting there is poses no risk.

I am surprised there is no product available to spray on and hence "seal" the small amount of asbestos in a CU

Ask yourself how many asbestos garage roofs do you drive past every day?

 

[Sidewinder]

There kind of are products that you can use to seal it.

The issue is as Kerch has said.

If there is an issue, then everyone will turn their back on you, and let you take the rap for it.

Plus opening up the board is enough to disturb any fibres present & allow them into the atmosphere.

It’s not TNT, it’s more like Russian Roulette, think  Deer Hunter.

I know a guy who was exposed 40 years ago in the NHS, he worked there until he retired.

Every year he was screened, sometimes they found something that needed further investigation, sometimes they didn’t.

He didn’t want to know, because there was nothing that could be done apparently.

However he had to go through that every year.

Worry level through the roof.

Do you want to have that hanging over your head?

 

[Andy™]

In  lot of cases the danger is in disturbing it. Just sitting there is poses no risk.

I am surprised there is no product available to spray on and hence "seal" the small amount of asbestos in a CU

Ask yourself how many asbestos garage roofs do you drive past every day?

garage roofs are fairly low risk, the fibres are mostly well contained, unlike the flash pads where they are not very well contained and can easily escape. there is no product to 'seal' that small amount because there is no safe way to contain it with a spray and should be removed. it probably would be spreayed with something during removal but thats only to help limit any fibres escaping during the work but thats it

 

[steptoe]

I am surprised there is no product available to spray on and hence "seal" the small amount of asbestos in a CU

empty a can of expanding foam into one of the oversized cable entries...?

 

[binky]

that's my knid of approach....but the issue is the dust, I would think expanding foam tends to disturb the dust becuase of the propellant gas. Might be safe if you wetted the board first (after disconnecting the leccy of course).

 

[Ardet R]

To seal a loose fibre asbestos by spraying a sealant on to it, whilst it would help for the future, would not be safe because the spray would, at the time of use, distribute fibres into the air.

Painting a sealant on to an asbestos surface is less hazardous, but could still come with risks.

Not in this case (because the flash pad is meant to be non flammable, (amazingly)) but in general, painting an asbestos surface will, in the short term, prevent the release of fibres, subsequent coats of paint can be safely applied to the sealed surface for longer term containment.

 

[apprentice87]

Most firms [small family firms definitely are] are liars and general tossers, and would GLADLY blame you if the **** hit the fan..

About 20 years ago i was working as a welder, [for about three days] for a firm that made chip shop ranges.. I was fabricating and then welding together the large 6mm steel pans that the chips were cooked in.

In the room next door, about 30 feet away, i could see a bloke [i now know to be a moron] lowering these pans into the ranges, as he did so, a large puff of what looked like white smoke would arise. Oh well....

After about three days, the boss came up to me, and wanted me to "prepare the insulation for the pans" It was in panels about an inch thick..

Anyway, he showed me how to cut the stuff, it was easy, you just used an ordinary kitchen knife, it was like cutting a meringue in half..

He said you should wear a mask, and produced a disposible paper mask for me.. Sure enough, everytime you cut a bit, it was like smoke came up from it.. After about a minute of this, i thought hang on, and went to find the packaging this stuff came in. It was in large boxes that were printed with a skull and cross bones and labeled "this product causes cancer" what the courgette!!!!!

Next door funnily enough, was my mates hire shop. I went straight in there and asked him. He got some kind of an expert from a respirator firm on the phone. This expert said that from the code on the mask i was given, it was a 20 pence one, intended for "nuisiance" dusts such as sawdust.. He said i should have a proper remotely air fed one for what i was doing...

That was it, i just sat in the hire shop all afternoon, the boss from the chip shop range place did not even come looking for me, i think he knew that i was on to the Tomatoe'd.. I never went in there ever again, not even to collect the three days wages i was owed.

Just wish i had gone to the HSE now, but how do you contact them?? Not interested in helping the small man, just making themselves look big when forced into action by fire brigade or a coroner i would say..

So, make no mistake, do not put yourself in a position where you could be blamed, just walk away..

john..