Board change help

[Luckyboy]

Bit now I am thinking... split load RCDs may be a good call for older houses, easie to work around if there are undetected borrowed neutrals

Hope you are joking with that comment! Wouldn't want to work in a property that you'd previously done work in! Always think about the next sparks and make their life easy, at least by not trying to give them a shock!!
Also, full RCBO board is barely any more expensive than a dual RCD board now a days, if you have a decent wholesaler.

 

[Barnet Al]

I think you are missing the point, the client is advised it needs fixing, but they don't want to fix it. So should do the rewire for free, leave it tripping or do a work around? Life is not black and white, there is no right or wrong answer.
As for cost, it is a balance, lots of unqualified sparkys racing to the bottom. I installed a separate isolator and 25mm tails which added to the cost, but you have to be competitive.

 

[Murdoch]

If you have a borrowed neutral on the lights and the customer can't afford the fix OR won't agree to it, the only sensible step is to put the lives in the same MCB and the neutrals in the same connection on the neutral board.

Better still fit a RCBO board, doing the same if essential

 

[Andy™]

If you have a borrowed neutral on the lights and the customer can't afford the fix OR won't agree to it, the only sensible step is to put the lives in the same MCB and the neutrals in the same connection on the neutral board.

Better still fit a RCBO board, doing the same if essential

exactly. since the wiring is mixed then it can only be one circuit so one MCB / RCBO. leaving it on different MCB's is not an acceptable solution

 

[Murdoch]

exactly. since the wiring is mixed then it can only be one circuit so one MCB / RCBO. leaving it on different MCB's is not an acceptable solution

But lots of so called sparks think you can only have 1 cable per MCB / RCBO (except rings of course)

 

[Sparksfly]

But lots of so called sparks think you can only have 1 cable per MCB / RCBO (except rings of course)

Probably NICIECs rule !! Corrected a number of NICEIC EICRs stating a bigger board needed, no more than one wire per MCB allowed.

 

[Murdoch]

Probably NICIECs rule !! Corrected a number of NICEIC EICRs stating a bigger board needed, no more than one wire per MCB allowed.

Utter nonsense

 

[Sparksfly]

Utter nonsense

It's True dat, in my experience

 

[mort2376]

Asked my assessor about this very situation and was told that its dangerous C2 to leave so easiest solution without fault finding or rewiring is to put the lights onto 1 circuit. No shared neutral therefore safe.

Safety first has always got to be the key.

 

[Barnet Al]

I totally agree. But what do you do when the supply is from 6A lighting returning via 20A kitchen radial?

 

[Andy™]

I totally agree. But what do you do when the supply is from 6A lighting returning via 20A kitchen radial?

either 10/16a if the lighting can handle it, or put the lighting on a fused spur on the kitchen circuit. still not ideal, but far safer than leaving them on different MCB's

but either way, some basic I&T before changign the board would have alread highlighted the issue so the price to put it right & do the job properly would be included with the board

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I totally agree. But what do you do when the supply is from 6A lighting returning via 20A kitchen radial?

Disconnect any dangerous wiring.. either the 6A or the 20A... then give the customer a quote for rectifying the problem..

Borrowed / Shared neutral is classed as a C2 code in industry standard guidance, i.e. see page 17 of best practice guide 4..
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/mi1oqkur/best-practice-guide-4-issue-7-1.pdf

Thus would be classed as "Unsatisfactory if you were doing an EICR...
So how can you leave it as Satisfactory if doing alterations / additions..
Unless you are also a Twat.. ??

Inform the customer that whoever wired it was an incompetent Twat as reg 314.4 has been effective since 1 July 2008... Prior to that it was reg 314-01-04
(All circuit wiring must be independent of other circuit wiring)

And you cannot issue an EIC or MWC if you have identified any defects that affect the safety of the installation..
see regulation(s) 644.1.2 since 1 Jan 2019, or 632.4 since 1 July 2008,
or 742-01-04 and /or 743-01-03 prior to that!

Guidance is pretty clear in my opinion... You either do the work correctly..
Or don't do the work, (and walk away), where you have identified potentially dangerous wiring..

Unless you make sure that your work is electrically safe, compliant with BS7671 and presents no danger to people, property or livestock!

What's the problem???

 

[Fleeting]

Disconnect any dangerous wiring.. either the 6A or the 20A... then give the customer a quote for rectifying the problem..

Borrowed / Shared neutral is classed as a C2 code in industry standard guidance, i.e. see page 17 of best practice guide 4..
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/mi1oqkur/best-practice-guide-4-issue-7-1.pdf

Thus would be classed as "Unsatisfactory if you were doing an EICR...
So how can you leave it as Satisfactory if doing alterations / additions..
Unless you are also a Twat.. ??

Inform the customer that whoever wired it was an incompetent Twat as reg 314.4 has been effective since 1 July 2008... Prior to that it was reg 314-01-04
(All circuit wiring must be independent of other circuit wiring)

And you cannot issue an EIC or MWC if you have identified any defects that affect the safety of the installation..
see regulation(s) 644.1.2 since 1 Jan 2019, or 632.4 since 1 July 2008,
or 742-01-04 and /or 743-01-03 prior to that!

Guidance is pretty clear in my opinion... You either do the work correctly..
Or don't do the work, (and walk away), where you have identified potentially dangerous wiring..

Unless you make sure that your work is electrically safe, compliant with BS7671 and presents no danger to people, property or livestock!

What's the problem???

Where is it quoted that is industry standard guidance?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Where is it quoted that is industry standard guidance?

Page 2 of Best Practice guide 4 and BS7671.

 

[Fleeting]

Page 2 of Best Practice guide 4 and BS7671.

So the Guide itself professes to be the industry standard, it is not it just claims to be. Where is it in BS7671 so I don't have to search the entire book?

 

[Chewbacca]

I totally agree. But what do you do when the supply is from 6A lighting returning via 20A kitchen radial?

Sounds like a neutral has been taken from the 20a circuit for a light , so you would need to find that connection and remove it. Turn off the 20 A and find what doesn't work anymore.

 

[Murdoch]

So the Guide itself professes to be the industry standard, it is not it just claims to be. Where is it in BS7671 so I don't have to search the entire book?

Sounds like you disagree with this advice.

What would you do ?

 

[Fleeting]

Sounds like you disagree with this advice.

What would you do ?

What would I do with what?

 

[Fleeting]

Page 2 of Best Practice guide 4 and BS7671.

Asking again you got a page number for BS7671?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

So the Guide itself professes to be the industry standard, it is not it just claims to be. Where is it in BS7671 so I don't have to search the entire book?

It looks like you may not have read page 2 of the guide either?
As it does not profess to be.. It is a joint contribution document by 13 listed trades bodies / organisations.. Who believe the information to be correct...

And also states that feedback is welcome from anyone..
So if you have concerns about accuracy of any of the guidance there is an e-mail address you can use.. (But possibly you do not consider that any of 13 listed bodes have any industry related relevance or useful purpose, to offer anyone ?)





I have added a couple of images to assist, as at appears you don't like searching / reading too much yourself?