Buying a property with a failed certificate

[NS1]

Hi. The property we are buying has failed the electrical certificate. The costs are between 1500-2000( taking their word for it). They are willing to knock off 1000 pound only off the cost of the house.

Should they have to get the works completed before selling the house to us? Does having this failed certificate effect our insurance?

 

[Geoff1946]

Depends somewhat if you wish to have any additional work as opposed to just fixing the failure items.
If it were me I think I would want to take control, even if it was just the remedial work. There may be different ways of fixing the problems and if you leave it to the sellers they are surely just going to go for the cheapest.

 

[UNG]

1500 - 2000 would suggest that some significant work is needed to correct the issues found. Without any any pictures and sight of the EICR it is difficult to access whether this work would be value for money or not
When looking at houses I always suggest to people have a look at the CU and count the number of sockets, if you need to add a significant number of sockets it can be easier to rewire the whole property rather than throw money at what may be considered temporary repairs

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi. The property we are buying has failed the electrical certificate. The costs are between 1500-2000( taking their word for it). They are willing to knock off 1000 pound only off the cost of the house.

Should they have to get the works completed before selling the house to us? Does having this failed certificate effect our insurance?

To be accurate there is no such thing as a "failed" certificate..

Electrical certificates or minor works certificates:
Are issued following completion of some electrical alterations, to confirm that the alterations comply with the current wiring regulations.
In a domestic property situation there are some legal requirements for issuing electrical certificates that come under Part-P of the building regulations.

There are also electrical installation condition reports:
Which follow inspection and testing to verify the condition of an existing electrical installation.
And an evaluation is made to state if the installation is "Satisfactory" or Un-Satisfactory" for continued used.
There should be a page with a list of observations that are categorised as;
Danger present, Potentially dangerous, Improvement recommended or further investigation required.

Although wiring regulations BS7671 recommend inspection & testing at a change of occupancy..
there is NO legal obligation to have a condition report done..
and/or either party may choose or not to pay for an inspection..

So I assume you have an "Un-satisfactory" condition report.
with a list of various observations..
(Please note, although there are some industry standard guidance about coding observation,
there is an element of personal opinion of the person doing the inspection.)
A free download guide is available discussing some aspects of electrical condition reports,
which may or may not be of some assistance to your interpretations:
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/2149/bpg4-1.pdf

It is generally in the best interests of the purchaser to pay for a condition report..
BUT.. until you actually own the property you are dependant upon the goodwill of the seller to allow one to be undertaken,
as to do an accurate inspection involves disconnecting the power and opening up a sample of accessories to do various tests.

As both the seller and their estate agents want to sell the property to get their money and commission, it is not uncommon for a very basic visual-only inspection to be done, to try and suggest that an electrical installation is in better condition than it really is. Plus visual reports are in reality of minimal value to anyone!!

To answer the second part of your question..
There is NO obligation for anyone to have to do anything...
It is basically down to how the two parties are willing to negotiate the price around the perceived condition and value of the property.

Similar to buying a second-hand car privately..
It may have MOT or may not..
It may be in full running order or may not..
You may choose to get an RAC/AA/Other organisation to do a vehicle inspection before purchase,
or you may just buy it as seen!

The key factor is how many other people are wiling to pay the asking price!

 

[Fleeting]

To be accurate there is no such thing as a "failed" certificate..

Electrical certificates or minor works certificates:
Are issued following completion of some electrical alterations, to confirm that the alterations comply with the current wiring regulations.
In a domestic property situation there are some legal requirements for issuing electrical certificates that come under Part-P of the building regulations.

There are also electrical installation condition reports:
Which follow inspection and testing to verify the condition of an existing electrical installation.
And an evaluation is made to state if the installation is "Satisfactory" or Un-Satisfactory" for continued used.
There should be a page with a list of observations that are categorised as;
Danger present, Potentially dangerous, Improvement recommended or further investigation required.

Although wiring regulations BS7671 recommend inspection & testing at a change of occupancy..
there is NO legal obligation to have a condition report done..
and/or either party may choose or not to pay for an inspection..

So I assume you have an "Un-satisfactory" condition report.
with a list of various observations..
(Please note, although there are some industry standard guidance about coding observation,
there is an element of personal opinion of the person doing the inspection.)
A free download guide is available discussing some aspects of electrical condition reports,
which may or may not be of some assistance to your interpretations:
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/2149/bpg4-1.pdf

It is generally in the best interests of the purchaser to pay for a condition report..
BUT.. until you actually own the property you are dependant upon the goodwill of the seller to allow one to be undertaken,
as to do an accurate inspection involves disconnecting the power and opening up a sample of accessories to do various tests.

As both the seller and their estate agents want to sell the property to get their money and commission, it is not uncommon for a very basic visual-only inspection to be done, to try and suggest that an electrical installation is in better condition than it really is. Plus visual reports are in reality of minimal value to anyone!!

To answer the second part of your question..
There is NO obligation for anyone to have to do anything...
It is basically down to how the two parties are willing to negotiate the price around the perceived condition and value of the property.

Similar to buying a second-hand car privately..
It may have MOT or may not..
It may be in full running order or may not..
You may choose to get an RAC/AA/Other organisation to do a vehicle inspection before purchase,
or you may just buy it as seen!

The key factor is how many other people are wiling to pay the asking price!

BS7671 makes no reference to an inspection at change of occupancy in fact it makes no suggestion of intervals for periodic inspection and testing.

 

[Murdoch]

OP - have you got a copy of the EICR?

 

[ProDave]

As the others have said, no obligations on anyone. Post here a list of the C1 and C2 items from the EICR and we might be able to comment on what is really serious and needs attention, and what might be an over zealous inspector.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

BS7671 makes no reference to an inspection at change of occupancy in fact it makes no suggestion of intervals for periodic inspection and testing.

Well done.. Top marks... Go to the front of the class and put a Gold-Star next to your name on the wall board...!!

I shall amend my earlier comment thus:-

An industry recognised book "Guidance note 3" published by the IET, (the same people who publish BS7671 wiring regulations), specifically designed to provide notes and guidance on inspection and testing of electrical installations, with direct references to the wiring regulations, does recommend inspection and testing at a change of occupancy...

[ ref: table 3.2 page 115, top line starting 'Domestic accommodation general' ]

However there is still no legal obligation for any sort of inspection.

I apologise for trying to summarise it down a bit for the OP, who I suspect is not electrically trained..

 

[NS1]

The majority of the report states C2 apart from two which state C3.

Will this effect us getting home insurance on the property? Or make it invalid if it happens?

 

[ProDave]

The majority of the report states C2 apart from two which state C3.

Will this effect us getting home insurance on the property? Or make it invalid if it happens?

But WHAT do the C2 items say? What are they?

 

[NS1]

These are the C2s reported

 

[Murdoch]

These are the C2s reported

so I hope you have budgeted for a rewire of the lighting circuits, new fuseboard and bonding upgrades?

seriously there are countless homes in the UK like this and it’s never a point insurance companies ask about so crack on

 

[NS1]

Would all of this come to the cost budgeted 1500-2000 pounds? Thanks so much

 

[ProDave]

And what is the rest of the property like? Are you expecting just to move in and do nothing? Or is it a project?

 

[Murdoch]

Would all of this come to the cost budgeted 1500-2000 pounds? Thanks so much

unless it’s a studio flat I’d say it’s very unlikely plus given the up heaval and redecorating required , best add another thousand or more

where in the uk are you?

 

[ProDave]

No earth on most of the lighting could mean wired in 2 core, or it could just mean that the earth connection is broken at the first light fitting.

 

[Murdoch]

No earth on most of the lighting could mean wired in 2 core, or it could just mean that the earth connection is broken at the first light fitting.

true

how old is the property ?

 

[NS1]

1970 the property. Nothing else needs to be done it's not a renovation project at all

 

[Murdoch]

So it is very unlikely that there is no cpc on the lighting circuits so you need to get the lighting circuits rewired AND at the same time you’ll need a new fuseboard

Please make sure that your new fuseboard / consumer unit is one with RCBOs

 

[ProDave]

So a good competent electrician to find and fix the faults, new consumer unit and some upgrading to the earthing arrangements. Probably still £1000