Cable Size

[Jono Pashley]

Eh..some of the PV firms just dont want to pay at all then lie and con people, bunch of country farmers the lot of them.

 

[newman]

So, the installation of the PV system (and connection to the grid) is notifiable under Part P - presumeably the notification states that the install meets the building regs, but they don`t as they fail to meet BS7671 AND the building regs .... what standard ARE these installations adhering to with regards electrical safety?What has actually been done about this longstanding "issue"?

The only positive step been done is to get the DNO to put a meter on the incomming supply, the PV is switched off at the moment, I hve emailed NAPIT again,with the full history of the cable and I am going to email them again with the recent information from the Forum about not meeting BS7671 AND the building regs

 

[kme]

KME.what is the reg that you refer to here

Not got book to hand; but sec. 712, (the PV part). It was apparently amended from the BRB. I`ll get the reg no. for you later - unless someone finds it first.

551.7.2 (note added in amendment)

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Also:

http://www.bwea.com/pdf/small/ElecBestPracticeGuide3.pdf

Bottom of page 13, diagram and paragraph directly above, to the left, beginning "disconnection of the final circuit"

 

[newman]

MIS3002 4.2 (Pg 8)Solar PV Microgeneration systems shall be designed and installed in accordance with the DTI

guide; "Photovoltaics in Buildings

 

[Jono Pashley]

NAPIT talk alot of rubbish you should take it up with REAL.

 

[newman]

NAPIT talk alot of rubbish you should take it up with REAL.[/quoteI agree about NAPIT, but I don't think he is a member of REAL only MCS

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Close mate. If the inverter is capable of re-connecting to the grid "180 degrees out of phase", ( which every one I have ever dealt with is), that disconnection time rises to 5 seconds maximum.This is the reason for the other big, ongoing issue with PV systems being installed onto "spare ways" of 16th- and 17th- ed. boards.

The inverter circuit is a distribution circuit. According to the BGB, it should not be fitted on the load side of ANY protective device feeding other final circuits.

And an RCD is a protective device..............

This is what NAPIT says

The PV circuit is not classed as a distribution circuit, it is classed as a final circuit supplying a fixed piece of equipment. In addition this circuit being on the same circuit supplying sockets outlets provided with RCD protection for supplementary protection will, in the event of the RCD tripping cause the inverter to trip out thus isolating the socket outlets and any equipment connected to them.

 

[ProDave]

This is what NAPIT says

The PV circuit is not classed as a distribution circuit, it is classed as a final circuit supplying a fixed piece of equipment. In addition this circuit being on the same circuit supplying sockets outlets provided with RCD protection for supplementary protection will, in the event of the RCD tripping cause the inverter to trip out thus isolating the socket outlets and any equipment connected to them.

If that's what they say then they don't understand the situation.

If a solar PV inverter shares the SAME RCD as socket outlets, and the RCD trips, the inverter will not trip for up to 5 seconds, thus it could keep the sockets energised when they should have been disconnected.

Send that back to NAPIT and see how they wriggle out of that one.

 

[steptoe]

but I don't think he is a member of REAL only MCS

anyone installing solar PV for FITs, legally, MUST be a member of REAL,

 

[newman]

If that's what they say then they don't understand the situation.If a solar PV inverter shares the SAME RCD as socket outlets, and the RCD trips, the inverter will not trip for up to 5 seconds, thus it could keep the sockets energised when they should have been disconnected.

Send that back to NAPIT and see how they wriggle out of that one.

I would love to send it back to NAPIT ,but I feel I would need proof of the inverter not tripping for up to 5 seconds

 

[Sidewinder]

I would love to send it back to NAPIT ,but I feel I would need proof of the inverter not tripping for up to 5 seconds

Manuf' data says this as a fact.

 

[newman]

anyone installing solar PV for FITs, legally, MUST be a member of REAL,

Thanks for that,it's strange it's not on any of his paper work though

 

[steptoe]

he himself I dont think need to be, but the contracting company does, its a requirement, its for when stuff like this happens they are an insurance scheme to get it sorted for you at no expense,

REAL Assurance Scheme

check here for members

then here is the consumer guide

 

[newman]

he himself I dont think need to be, but the contracting company does, its a requirement, its for when stuff like this happens they are an insurance scheme to get it sorted for you at no expense,REAL Assurance Scheme

check here for members

then here is the consumer guide

YES, found them, Thanks

 

[steptoe]

well if they are on there then read the consumer guide, it will tell you how to go about lodging a complaint,

 

[professional]

You need to be clear in what you actually wish to complain about i.e. if you feel that the electrical work carried out is not to the required standard(s) / the PV install as a whole is not to the required standard(s)

If you are not happy with the reply that you got from NAPIT, I`m sure they will be more than happy to explain their complaints procedure to you and assist you as befits a responsible DCLG Authorised Part P Scheme provider.

 

[newman]

The DNO came today and took the Volt meter away, while he was here I got him to recheck the Phase-Earth and Phase-Neutral again they were Phase-Earth 0.3 Phase- Neutral 0.45 Still the wrong way round

 

[steptoe]

Im still not convinced this is a DNO problem,

this is why 1% is for PV, to avoid any conflicts with the DNO fluctuations.

we could go on forever, it still wont change the fact your installer was a numpty.!

I had this problem last year quoting for a job, I quoted a new 35mm SWA submain etc, the guy that installed it put it on the existing 16mm, you just cant price against these sort of people.

 

[steptoe]

It would be interesting to know exactly what qualifications and experience the installer had.....

for sure,

it is known for normal sparks to install these systems and just have an MCS company 'sign' them off,

I'll bet the guy that installed this has only got experience[if any] of bog standard domestic installs and probably doesnt have a clue about what he was doing ,

actually, he has proved he didnt have a clue installing your system.

 

[steptoe]

did KME send one of 'his' crews to do it? :slap

bet it was an MCS roofer and one of his sparky mates from the pub.

 

[ivor dispatch]

The installer should have installed a cable with 1% min volt drop, that is why there is a 1% guide, if the run is a meter then 3% is fine maybe even 5% if the run is a long one then 1% is the norm anyone stating otherwise is a muppetThe AC cable should be feeding in at the DNO Intake position not at a sub distribution board

What has been said above about the MCS rules and BS7671 are correct, to be honest NAPIT (some of there tech support dont know much to be honest and you probably spoke to someone who flys a desk) are wrong and if you have any further phone calls from them i suggest in your own interests you record it

The best thing you can do is put in writing (and by all means ask away here so your letter is correct) to both NAPIT and REAL a formal complaint

It will be interesting to see the DNO results but even if there voltage is too high and they drop it to within the required spec your installation probably still wont work due to the volt drop and cable run

The other thing you can do is publicly name the company in question on a nice personal free blog including all that has happened as there is nothing worse than bad advertising on the internet for customers to google and run a mile from the sharks

Another option would be after your complaints and how it goes would be to get another installer to fit the correct cable, do an inspection and report of the whys and wherefores of what was wrong and leave it running properly, after its proved that the proper cable with the proper volt drop is working then issue small claims proceedings against the company who installed it for loss of FIT and the costs incurred for the new cable install and report....

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And i say it again

The installer was a MUPPET

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It would be interesting to know exactly what qualifications and experience the installer had.....

How can a run of 1m with a VD of 3% or 5% work but a """"long run""""""""" with a VD of 3% or 5% not work????????

If possible, please post the calculation you are using.

Why should the AC cable connect to the intake and not a sub main??????

I look forward to your answer

Thanks