Cable Size

[wozz]

I can understand why the OP is loosing faith not just in his installer but in this forum whih is a shame.

In this thread I have learnt you are not allowed to install anything out of reach and you are not allowed to go with the cheapest quote and 2 core armoured wont last 25 years. now I know none of these are true but there is not balance at all in this thread. Some are not participating in this thread (im sure) with opposing views as they dont want to upset people.

Picking holes in peoples work is easy (im not saying its unfounded), picking holes in peoples qualifications from seeing a few pics of their work is ridiculous.

This thread needs balance not closing as it goes off topic, i for one doff my cap to ivor for bringing different views to thread, he shouldnt be picked on for that reason after all he is doing the same as the rest of us giving up time to help others no need to get all keyboard warrior and gang up.

For what its worth when I saw the list of quals what jumped out at me was the A,B,C qual and the era that is from compared to the 2330 strange. Not impossible but strange.

I hope I have been a member of this forum long enough for this post to be taken in the correct context, im not having a go at anyone in particular and I hope this post is not removed.

 

[Jono Pashley]

So you would install the ONLY way to isolate the DC in the event of a problem 10ft from the floor requiring access equipment?

I for one will be exiting this thread as some users are getting silly, if anyone wants to discuss anything further they can PM me.

 

[a1]

No-one will remove your post Wozz. Your input, like everyone elses, is valued. Whether you have been a member for an hour or since we started the forum up.

 

[NozSpark]

I agree with the 2 core SWA comments, personally I never use it unless I'm running a sub main on a TNC-S supply which is going to be TT'd

As for the heights of the equipment I personally don't lie that either,,, although we do have to remember that this installation is in a barn,,, could this barn be being used for livestock in which case it's been mounted out "of reach" of the livestock to prevent damage by them

 

[NozSpark]

Is out of reach practical for DC and AC lock off, Inverter Maintenance, Inverter Screen ? Would the DNO like the fact they need a scaffold and working at heights to Isolate the Inverter should the need arise?I doubt there is any form of Risk Assessment to say its been put out of the way of Livestock....

Would it not have been better to have put it at Ground height with obstacles ( Enclosure etc ) to stop access ?

Definitely!

It was a thought that was running through my head

 

[Sidewinder]

Ivor has suggested controls by risk assessment, and in this case he is right, and it does not look like the designer did any design risk assessments with regard to maintenance at all!

Definite breach of CDM.

I don't know how Newman is going to get anywhere with this if NAPIT are not interested, then all he has are one (all) of the other registration bodies.

As G-H suggests, complain to them all!

 

[wozz]

Im glad that was took the right way.

1. I only use 3 core for many reasons availability and expense (2core is far dearer for me), I know why it was suggested but it sounded like it was the only option.

2. I agree i dont like it but the comments being made seemed to suggest the lights shouldnt be on the ceiling! And it was the OP that was at fault hence his slightly stressed replies! As for other PV installs I have seen the inverter has been in the loft hence requiring access equipment, this one might be slightly different but the principal is still there. After all the panels are on the roof any they still need maintaining.

 

[Sidewinder]

wozz,

Panels on the roof, yes, inverters in the loft, not really!

IMHO.

Good posts by the way.

Getting hold of 2C SWA is getting harder as none of my locals stock it.

 

[wozz]

It could have been better placed, but I would like to know (i know is impossible) what percentage of PV installs have inverters accessible without access equipment. Being a barn i would be more worried about machines, bales of hay/straw hitting it, or vermin being high up may save it from damage as would putting in a enclosure but then its not very easy to access, but barns can be very different without being in there and seeing what goes on very hard to say.

2core Non existent round here, one wholesalers has changed to LSF only aswel (which is far nicer to strip)!

Can anyone see the pictures posted as I cant see them anymore??

 

[wozz]

Plenty of Inverters get installed in the loft, unlike putting a boiler in the loft though where i believe under Gas Safe you have to have a proper loft ladder and walkway up there for access.And when they (Inverters) get fitted in the loft as a side note i wonder how many installers look at the possible inverter ambients and de-rate the inverter according to the manufacturers instructions.

I think they also have to have a light for the walkway and a light for the boiler, thats what I was told by a plumber who I know likes to go by the book.

 

[newman]

Im glad that was took the right way.1. I only use 3 core for many reasons availability and expense (2core is far dearer for me), I know why it was suggested but it sounded like it was the only option.

2. I agree i dont like it but the comments being made seemed to suggest the lights shouldnt be on the ceiling! And it was the OP that was at fault hence his slightly stressed replies! As for other PV installs I have seen the inverter has been in the loft hence requiring access equipment, this one might be slightly different but the principal is still there. After all the panels are on the roof any they still need maintaining.

Hi wozz , sorry I do'nt understand, can you tell me where I was at fault

 

[Manator]

Hi wozz , sorry I do'nt understand, can you tell me where I was at fault

Wozz was not saying you was at fault, he was telling people like me off for scare tactics, and defending your good self.

 

[Sidewinder]

I think they also have to have a light for the walkway and a light for the boiler, thats what I was told by a plumber who I know likes to go by the book.

They do wozz, you are correct, the loft has to have adequate permanent mains supplied lighting and an access walkway and platform at the boiler for working at it.

 

[newman]

Rung up SMA today about Inverters on wood,they said its not best practice ,try to avoid etc, etc, but nowhere is it writen down it shouldn't be fitted on wood,it is clear to me it will have to be changed,but how do I get the installer to listen.They did say the warrantie would NOT be affected.

 

[wozz]

Hi wozz , sorry I do'nt understand, can you tell me where I was at fault

Sorry wasnt worded very well I meant I can see how you may have felt you was at fault, which I felt you wasnt.

 

[wozz]

Rung up SMA today about Inverters on wood,they said its not best practice ,try to avoid etc, etc, but nowhere is it writen down it shouldn't be fitted on wood,it is clear to me it will have to be changed,but how do I get the installer to listen.They did say the warrantie would NOT be affected.

I believe the way it works in this industry is you have to give people a chance to right the wrongs. Can you get a email from them? Then say to the installer you want it changed because of this, if it was me I wouldnt have too much of a problem with this it wont take long and I would rather keep the customer happy, he may be happy to change it after this slight mistake has been pointed out. I think most electricians will / should admit they are not exactly brilliant with reading manufactures instructions.

Or has he already said he wont be changing it?

 

[newman]

Wozz was not saying you was at fault, he was telling people like me off for scare tactics, and defending your good self.

Sorry about that ,but if Wozz was saying I been worried, he would be right,and a few of you seem to like(i hope I am wrong)to use scare tactics.

Don't forget knowledge is power,with power should come responsibility

This is the DIY section after all

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 20:55 ---------- Previous post was made at 20:50 ----------

You probably wont get him to listen as unless he has trouble sleeping at nightExplain to him your worries about wood, SMA's doc and the fact SMA say it isnt the best practise - He did do an SMA course after all in Germany and I Doubt they taught him to instal a hot inverter on a wooden base

Did you put the wood up or did he ? If you did then did he question it ?

I suggested it ,he put it up---------- Post Auto-Merged at 21:01 ---------- Previous post was made at 20:55 ----------

I believe the way it works in this industry is you have to give people a chance to right the wrongs. Can you get a email from them? Then say to the installer you want it changed because of this, if it was me I wouldnt have too much of a problem with this it wont take long and I would rather keep the customer happy, he may be happy to change it after this slight mistake has been pointed out. I think most electricians will / should admit they are not exactly brilliant with reading manufactures instructions. Or has he already said he wont be changing it?

to be fair I have not asked him yet,

 

[Sidewinder]

newman,

I am sorry that you feel some of us are using scare tactics.

I am not using scare tactics I merely state facts.

The reason I state facts is that these cannot be disputed and, they are not my views, thus not scaremongering.

You have a big issue, that you will end up (are) responsible for.

You have to get the installer to come to the party to sort it.

Whilst it may be OK to have the inverter 3m in the air in his opinion, and perhaps yours and others on here.

It will not be the opinion of any professional witness if the guy isolating it falls off the ladder and dies.

The fault for this will be placed firmly at your feet as it is your premises.

Not what you want to hear I know.

However, you are going to have to write formally, recorded delivery to all of his recognition bodies preferably until one of them will address the issues.

We can give all the advice you want on here, but we are not on site, we have not seen the install, nor had chance to do a formal I&T and assessment of this against regulations & statute law.

You are the one on the spot, you are the one who will have to write to the "bodies" as it is your install upon which he has let you down.

 

[Manator]

I am sorry if I used scare tactics Newman however the facts are indeed real and ignorance of them is no defence.Do not be overly worried though you are not alone I would hazard a guess that 99% of the population are ignorant of these laws and how they effect them.

I will also say that now these matters have been brought to light, you have done everything in your power to put things right and get the advice you need to sort out this mess.

I do believe this will be sorted for you, and all this experience will provide you with a sound knowledge of how to deal with any other trades you happen to come by.

 

[philbas]

I agree with the 2 core SWA comments, personally I never use it unless I'm running a sub main on a TNC-S supply which is going to be TT'dAs for the heights of the equipment I personally don't lie that either,,, although we do have to remember that this installation is in a barn,,, could this barn be being used for livestock in which case it's been mounted out "of reach" of the livestock to prevent damage by them

Out of reach is not permitted, 705.410.3.5