Carillion collapse.

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I don't  but I guess a few small subbies will be ripped off   . 

How can you owe £1.5 billions   yet the directors all get their bonuses  ...sounds familiar !!! 

 
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It is, to any person with a modest amount of common sense, an obscene and blatant abuse of basic good business etiquette and moral standards. If anyone running a smaller business allowed debts to rack-up to a similar proportion of their income and cash flow, the bankers would be ramping up their charges to the extent that you either reign in your spending or wind up the business. But if its a 'big' business they are allowed to get away with it! why?

Doc H.

 
Having done council work, whereby we were investigated for our financial stability as a business, the fact that they were still being awarded contracts is very interesting despite the obvious financial demise looming large. Makes you wonder if the directors and shareholders line the coffers of the Tory party????

Biggest issue is how many small business go bust as a result - can't see these guys getting any help from anyone.

 
, the fact that they were still being awarded contracts is very interesting despite the obvious financial demise looming large. 


Very suspicious indeed. A few people with conflicts of interests involved with some of those deals I think.

Doc H

 
As with many large companies there will be an element of fraudulent activity going on behind the scenes. 

This is what shows them to be poor businessmen in the end. Any good businessman doesn’t need to be fraudulent to stay in business. 

If this were a small company and it collapsed with a whiff of any inappropriate  activity then they’d be labelled as cowboys or chancers and frowned upon by those in the upper echelons of business, I’ll pretty much bet that no one is frowned upon and it all turns out to be a twist of circumstances beyond the boards control that has brought about this colllapse. 

 
The collapse is easy to explain - constant lowest bid wins scenario, if you lose more money than the job is worth, you go bust. And how does the likes of Carillion constantly undercut prices? By relying on pushing wages and workers benefits down for skilled staff, and using unskilled for skilled or semi-skilled  work. Boss is OK though £600k and he left the company and still gets paid FFS! It's the likes of companies like this that have been complicit in 'the race to the bottom'.  There's a large set of major roadworks near me, 18 months long, not surprising when you never see more than about 10 blokes on site. The traffic management is appalling, with very confusing lane changes, little or none lane markings and poor signage. If I didn't drive this route on a regular basis I would struggle to know what to do. I often see visitors swapping lanes in dangerous ways.

What I have found interesting is some of the commentatars on TV who seem shocked that companies operate like this with payment terms of 90 days (changed last year to 120 days) to subbies, with the majority of the real workforce being subbies. 20,000 direct employed probably means more like 80,000 or more subbies on a regular basis

 
I see from the SI post on Carillion that they were holding back £800m in rentention payments. So if we look at the actual state of play, their debt was a lot higher than has been stated? Which demonstrates that their whole business model was wrong. 

 
From what I've read this will also affect the other construction giants such as kier & balfour beatty who were in partnership on contracts such as the much loved HS2.

This will indirectly effect a lot of small businesses too as they won't be getting payed after the vultures get their cut.

But at least the directors got their bonuses!!!!  :redcard

 
 I seriously think business law needs to change - they don't even do ID checks when you start a company. It is perfectly possible to put Mickey Mouse or the Queen as directors of a company, and Companies House will register the business.

 
Just mentioning that Carrilion  is  ....please correct me if I'm wrong here .......  an amalgamation of  McAlpine   & Tarmac. 

And as said ,  terms of payment  120 days. 

Doesn't appear to be any Forumites involved with them  thankfully. 

 
Just mentioning that Carrilion  is  ....please correct me if I'm wrong here .......  an amalgamation of  McAlpine   & Tarmac. 

And as said ,  terms of payment  120 days. 

Doesn't appear to be any Forumites involved with them  thankfully. 


Plus Wimpey and Mowlem!   "Carillion was from the combination of parts of Tarmac, Wimpey, Mowlem and Alfred McAlpine"  from here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42699020 Some interesting reading about the whole culture of how profits (and thus shareholders dividends), are calculated with these sort of businesses when looking a long term projects and contracts.

Doc H.

 
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