Condition Codes C1,c2,c3 & 1,2,3,4,

[nigel210]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Thanks for taking the time to look at this but as i have listed 1,2,3,4 i assume that some of you will be interested,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]i am looking for any information/statement relating to what a client’s response-ability is after receiving an old "periodic inspection report" and a current "EICR" [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]what i mean by this is what do they have to do once receiving say old school 1,2&4 new C2,C3. there must be a minimum i.e.. just codes 1&2 or 1 & 4, or C1 & C2 if so there must be a statement somewhere from someone electrical safety council, H&S etc.. that says when you receive a report you must act on etc etc but i can’t find it anywhere.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]The situation i have is a new jumped up Accountant acting on behalf of a client’s H&S/Property department has just dropped on our doorstep as the direct client i was dealing with has been taken ill, i believe this bloke is trying to make a name for himself by cutting everything out that has been done before. we have pointed out that any "1" we find we will act on strait away as it is our responsibility to and the property department have emphasized this to him as the norm.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]unfortunately i can’t name the client but they are a main player with over 3500 outlets this is where the 1,2,3,4, come in as we have
several contracts with them on diffident sites and the orders were placed a few years ago to carry out the inspections over a 5 year period, this allows  these sites to be carried out under the old periodic inspection report scheme.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]i have been up since 4 this morning trying to fine this statement of info relating to this as i need to submit a report urgently to the powers above but i have to be spot on with what i state hence the searching for any info.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]i would much appreciate anyone's help in this matter as i am running out of avenues i can speak to the NICEIC first thing Monday but need to get my report in by then.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]thanks for looking [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]regards[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Nigel[/SIZE]

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

There is no law or legislation to say anyone has to have a electrical inspection carried out or to act on one if it has.  However this guy is the representative of the company & if its his position to say do or dont do something then thats it. There is also  his  duty of care , you were doing No 1s, he might insist on 2s  (no smutty comments please) also (even 3 or 4) and the new C equivalents .

 

[Sidewinder]

More info req'd don't quite grasp the issue?

 

[steptoe]

Im thinking that they were fixing the 1s as they went along,

now, this guy is saying fix nothing and simply report them.

thats how Im reading it,

the other thing puzzles me,

I thought you could only use the 'old' PIR forms for work already started, surely once you start on a new site its a different installation and therefore now has to be on a 'new' EICR form, its not the same site over-running both versions.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

i am looking for any information/statement relating to what a client’s response-ability is after receiving an old "periodic inspection report" and a current "EICR" 

what i mean by this is what do they have to do once receiving say old school 1,2&4 new C2,C3. there must be a minimum i.e.. just codes 1&2 or 1 & 4, or C1 & C2 if so there must be a statement somewhere from someone electrical safety council, H&S etc.. that says when you receive a report you must act on etc etc but i can’t find it anywhere.

i have been up since 4 this morning trying to fine this statement of info relating to this as i need to submit a report urgently to the powers above but i have to be spot on with what i state hence the searching for any info.

Reg 114.1 page 15 of green book,  (page 13 of red book), clearly states that BS7671 is "non Statutory"

Guidance notes for recipients for an EICR is on page 399, bullet points 7, 8, 9  state "it is recommended that....."

the old PIR guidance notes page 339 {red book} again states "it is recommended that ..."

Guidance for Periodic inspection reporting and the certificates issues are in chapters 62 & 63, page 195-6  where regulation 622.2 points out that other monitoring and maintenance regimes can be just as effective as a periodic inspection

this is also reference in the Guidance note 3, section 3.1 "Purpose of inspection & testing"

So basically, Inspection & testing is actually non statutory...

and any observations made are just guidance for the client....

who also defines what extent and limitation of the installation is inspected in the first place...

and the client may choose to use other monitoring and maintenance regimes for their installtions....

So any recommendations on a previous PIR (EICR) can be ignored by the client if they so wish...

There is no legal obligation under BS7671 to have to abide by any information given in a PIR / EICR.

Which is why you cannot find anything!

If the person doing the inspection finds something really dangerous they have duty of care to make it safe / disconnect and advise the customer (preferably in writiing)...

But the client could reconnect it once you have left if they so wish!!!

Welcome to the forum

Guinness

 

[NozSpark]

Like everyone has said above BS7671 is non statutory, so its not even worth considering that.

The only ones that have any influence what the company do(or not do) will be the H&SAW act and the Electricity at work regulations; under those they probably only have a very vague legal responsibility to ensure that the working environment is safe.

The only legal responsibility that you have is to fix or isolate any 1's or C1's,, but that's your responsibility and not theirs

... and I also thought that you could only complete an "In work" PIR and that any new ones had to be EICR's

 

[Manator]

This all boils down to what you can and can not do, the principal for this decision is your obligation under a duty of care. Duty of care is a much misunderstood term, and in its definition could apply to your duty to all other members of the planet we live on.

However there was a case where the house of lords ruled that the principle duty of care should be confined to your duty of care to those in your vicinity, for instance at work, or in your home and so on.

As an electrical tester your duty of care is restricted to that environment, and your duty is to prevent any issue that could cause harm to others. Now some have taken this meaning to imply that they can, and should, immediately fix or disconnect a dangerous part or whole of the installation,this is not the case, permission should be given by the client before, or during the inspection. Your duty of care is deemed fulfilled when you have reported the problem to the client, and in writing you can prove that you indeed fulfilled your duty of care. If it is not written then you will have no proof.

There is a process whereby you can issue an electrical danger notification, again this proves that you have fulfilled your duty of care, and written evidence is present to show this.

The water gets a little more cloudy with the domestic environment as it can be reasonably assumed that no action will be taken by some households, however this is not the same for the commercial or industrial environment because not only do they have a duty of care to their employees and visitors, but come under statute laws often enforced by H&S laws.

If the client only requires a report, then that is what you should be doing, any codes given that highlight any dangers should be reported immediately, and if you assess that yourself or others are placed in any danger in carrying out your duties, the testing should be terminated and the relevant danger notices given.

Remember that the client has a duty of care towards yourself and not place you or any operative in any danger.