EICR classification for no smokes or co2 detection

[DaveS79]

Evening all

Did an EICR today and although install up to a very good standard. The one issue I did note was the lack of any smokes, heat detectors or co2 monitors. It has a gas supply to apartment and it is a communal block. I have checked 18th ed and guide to building regs and they only seem to talk of any new builds. What would you guys do in this situation. Would you add it as a recommendation  or possibly a C2?. Cheers 

 

[Sidewinder]

Can you give it a BS 7671 regulation number that the lack of smokes or CO (not CO2 btw) monitors breaches?

 

[DaveS79]

Can you give it a BS 7671 regulation number that the lack of smokes or CO (not CO2 btw) monitors breaches?

CO2 noted silly mistake . In regard to regs not at minute no I can't i haven't found any. That said though if it is the case that there is none stipulating their inclusion I find that very surprising.

 

[Risteard]

CO2 noted silly mistake . In regard to regs not at minute no I can't i haven't found any. That said though if it is the case that there is none stipulating their inclusion I find that very surprising.

No-one suggested that there aren't any requirements, but simply that they are outwith the scope of BS7671. Therefore an inspection against the requirements of BS7671 cannot flag them up as an issue.

 

[DaveS79]

No-one suggested that there aren't any requirements, but simply that they are outwith the scope of BS7671. Therefore an inspection against the requirements of BS7671 cannot flag them up as an issue.

Thanks Risteard. In that case then they don't even merit observation?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Evening all

Did an EICR today and although install up to a very good standard. The one issue I did note was the lack of any smokes, heat detectors or co2 monitors. It has a gas supply to apartment and it is a communal block. I have checked 18th ed and guide to building regs and they only seem to talk of any new builds. What would you guys do in this situation. Would you add it as a recommendation  or possibly a C2?. Cheers 

Any existing mains powered smoke/heat detectors would have fixed wiring that is part of the electrical installation that would inspected as part of the EICR...

But... any wiring that does not exist cannot be inspected or reference in any way shape or form...

e.g. Lack of an electric shower, or no extractor fan, or no outdoor socket, or no electric oven with no wiring supplying items that are not there..

Cannot present any immediate or potential danger to any users of the electrical installation.

AND  you would make no reference to any battery smoke detectors either, anymore than you would mention a battery doorbell or DAB radio!

All you need to confirm is that no parts of the fixed installation wiring could endanger any of its users. 

There is a whole list of tick-boxes on the current EICR of the stuff you have to verify.

If its not there.....

It is not relevant.

Guinness

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

CO2 noted silly mistake . In regard to regs not at minute no I can't i haven't found any. That said though if it is the case that there is none stipulating their inclusion I find that very surprising.

Have to add...

I find it very surprising someone "competent"? to do an EICR finds it surprising understanding what they should be checking....

:C

 

[Evans Electric]

I would say that the presence  (or not)  of  smoke  detectors is beyond the remit of your friendly local electrician  .     They would come under  , local council , architect , building owner , householder , Building Control  , insurance company .

CO  detectors  likewise , nothing to do us .......other than if we were employed to fit them .  

I think , because we cover many fields ,  we can be guilty of getting too involved. 

 

[Murdoch]

So , the property has mains powered smoke and heat alarms - but they are all out of date ? C2 or C3?

Thinking of 651.2 (v) 

 

[Sidewinder]

This is what we put in CodeBreakers:

 

[Murdoch]

^^ so do you agree with me or not?

 

[Sidewinder]

^^ so do you agree with me or not?

I hadn't seen your post, let me look up the reg no.

 

[Sidewinder]

"Strictly" speaking the electrical installation ends at the supply to the "smoke/CO", as they come under another standard.

Would you code any appliance such as a hard wired cooker or refrigerator under that code?

Lighting we do deal with differently I admit.

I think that the link to using that clause is tenuous.

 

[kerching]

Surely if it doesn't exist then (by definition) it cannot have 'deteriorated or become damaged so as to impair safety"

just wondering

 

[Murdoch]

So let’s induce some good old fashioned common sense then

C3 for a mains powered smoke alarm out of date then

no estate agent gets a let property inspected to the fire regs ....

 

[DaveS79]

Have to add...

I find it very surprising someone "competent"? to do an EICR finds it surprising understanding what they should be checking....

:C

Thanks for thorough explanation Special Location. I am doing best to be as competent and thorough as possible hence the question. 

So , the property has mains powered smoke and heat alarms - but they are all out of date ? C2 or C3?

Thinking of 651.2 (v) 

No Murdoch no fixed wiring no detectors as others have pointed out my remit stops at BS7671. Thanks

 

[Jono Pashley]

You can make a comment regarding the lack of fire detection but you cannot code it. However if detection is installed and is expired or blatantly installed incorrectly, out of date alarms or other obvious issues then you could give it a FI citing

560.10 FIRE DETECTION AND FIRE ALARM SYSTEMS

Fire detection and fire alarm systems shall comply with the relevant parts of BS 5839 series.

and recommend they have the system inspected by a contractor competent in the relevant parts of 5389. 9 times out of 10 they wont bother but at least you have exercised due diligence and discharged your duty of care to the client. Very rare to even find commisioning paperwork with domestic systems since alot of morons think because BS7671 doesnt tell them explicitly to do it they dont have to.

 

[ProDave]

CO2 noted silly mistake . In regard to regs not at minute no I can't i haven't found any. That said though if it is the case that there is none stipulating their inclusion I find that very surprising.

Not so silly.

A new build in Scotland now must have CO alarms where any combustion appliances are, AND a CO2 alarm in the main bedroom.

The requirements to heat, smoke, CO and CO2 alarms are building regs for new builds, and a requirement for rental properties.  They are not a BS7671 requirement. So their absence is irrelevant to an EICR but may bother someone e.g if wishing to let the property.

 

[Murdoch]

Lighting we do deal with differently I admit.

So why do we deal with lighting differently? 

 

[ProDave]

So why do we deal with lighting differently? 

We don't.

Show me the reg that makes it a fail if there are no lights installed?