EICR issues

[MikeBz]

I’ve just had an EICR report (for the purpose of being a landlord) on a 2 bedroom first floor flat, built in ~2000.

This is what was found:



RCDs - I’m reading conflicting information online about whether this is a requirement. Plenty of sites say it’s only required if it was a requirement when the property was built or if the earth is via a ground spike (it isn’t). I’ve also read that it’s also required for any bathroom electrics, and a few people saying it’s required for any wall sockets. I think it’s mentioned twice on the report because there are 2 consumer units, one for Economy 7 storage heaters and one for everything else. There is an RCD on the shower circuit.

MCB ratings - ignoring the fact that there isn’t a kitchen heater (though there is a 16A MCB labelled as such), the “bathroom heater” (fairly low power electric towel rail, can’t remember exactly) has a 10A MCB, the lounge heater (10A MCB)I guess is the convector side of a Dimplex CXL storage heater (2kW) and the bedroom heaters (1 x 16A MCB) are wall mounted convector types of unknown to me power rating. If the MCB is under rated does that not just mean that it may trip early, which in itself is not dangerous?

Bathroom ceiling light is not IP65 - I guess that’s fair enough?

Additionally, although not listed on the EICR he told me verbally, and has quoted for, that it is a requirement for wired smoke detectors in all rooms except the kitchen, and a heat detector in the kitchen. From searching it seems to me that this is the rule in Scotland but not England (the property is in England).

Any comments appreciated.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

In respect of the smoke alarms you are both wrong.

For U.K. rentals, you must have an interconnected smoke alarm on each level.
You must also have a carbon monoxide alarm in any living accommodation room that has a fixed combustion appliance (Except a cooker)

Scotland went a bit further, they say ALL homes must have the above, AND a heat alarm in the kitchen, AND a smoke alarm in the Living room OR the room you use most.

U.K. Building regs will come into "force" if you do any building alterations, and they have requirements similar to Scotland.

There would be no harm in having the cables installed for more smoke alarms for future use. You must have a heat alarm in a kitchen IF it has no door /wall to separate it from the remainder of the property. But as yet, I only see "rumours" you must have one, but no law. (I will check, but its Bank Holiday)

Oh, Nest protect smoke alarms do NOT comply. (And they are overpriced)

 

[Murdoch]

How tall is the bathroom ceiling / light. If it’s over 2.25 m then the ip rating is incorrect so it’s not a C2

A 10A mcb on 2.5 is not a C2

Could you post a photo of the CU?

 

[Fleeting]

How many KW are the heaters 10A is probably fine.

 

[MikeBz]

Thankyou for the responses.

The flat is on a single level. There is a single smoke alarm in the hallway, this was recently installed by the Fire Brigade. There are no fixed combustion devices so no requirement for a CO alarm.

Here are the CUs:





I don’t have a picture of the RCD unit for the shower.

I will have to see if the tenant can measure the bathroom ceiling height.

Am I correct in thinking that an under-rated MCB will simply risk early tripping, ie an inconvenience not a danger?

 

[Fleeting]

Depends how many KW the heaters are, up to 2KW then 10A is fine.

 

[Andy™]

chances are the heaters are 2kw (or less) panel heaters. so under 10a. so nothing to code. RCD codes are correct. good luckwith RCBO's for that board, probably going to be easier to change it. light questionable depending on height. surprised they didn't give a C1 for the board not being metal...

whoever done that would appear to be incometant and i wouldnt be wanting them back to fix anything

also worth noting that RCD's on sockets has been a requirement for a long time. and its been a few years since a satisfactory EICR was required on rentals so unless this is a newly rented property then your previous management of the property is also questionable...

 

[Phoenix]

I take issue with the rather generic "Circuits require RCD protection C2" without any further explanation of which cirucits (and therefore where the requirement comes from)

In my view its multiple issues:

Sockets without additional protection likely to supply equipment outside is always a C2

Sockets which won't be expected to be used outside - I'd probably give this a C2 for general purpose sockets in a domestic rental, but if its just one socket in the loft for aerial amp or behind the fridge then C3 would be appropiate in my view

Cables concealed in walls without mechanical protection without additional RCD pro.- C3 in my view, but codebreakers has it as a C2

Bathroom without addition prot. would be a C3 (anything in bathroom requires RCD protection) , however that does mean you cant meet the requirements for ommision of supp bonding, which is often stated as being a C2 in the NICEIC best practice guide, but if its just bathroom lighting thats not on RCD and its class 2, or its all plastic on the outside then I'm pragmetic and go to a C3 instead.

Other domestic lighting without additional prot is either C3 or note as not to current standards and assign no code. But usually its covered under concealed cables or bathroom points

What is in that enclosure bottom left of the top picture, just on the edge of the frame?

 

[MikeBz]

What is in that enclosure bottom left of the top picture, just on the edge of the frame?

It’s the RCD unit for the shower.

It’s bad for both landlords and professionals if the regs are so open to interpretation. Even professionals on this site clearly have different interpretations.

From https://www.electricaltestinginspec...cr-what-landlords-need-to-know-before-booking:

“A very quick and easy way to check to see if the property has no RCD protection on the socket outlets.

If the property is a flat and situated on either the 1st, 2nd,3rd floor or above and there is no outside area, i.e. large terrace or balcony then this would not cause an EICR to fail.”

This is the quote from the guy who carried out the EICR:



Does that seem reasonable? I think we’ve established that the smoke and heat detectors are not required given that the property is on one level and there is a smoke detector in the hall? The bathroom light fitting isn’t a big deal in the scope of things, I might as well have it done at the same time as other work to avoid arguments in future.

 

[truffle pig]

Is the flat a long term let or a holiday let? if its a holiday let then the requirement for the smoke / heat detectors are now a requirement in England (not if its a long term let).
The bathroom light I would always install IPX4 or above, even if its over 2.25mts high - "external influences" (steam - potential water splash) come into play

 

[Andy™]

It’s bad for both landlords and professionals if the regs are so open to interpretation. Even professionals on this site clearly have different interpretations.

welcome to our world where the regs constantly change, often making no sense other to make someone else more money, and many times contain errors and even the ****** corrections have been known to contain errors...

 

[MikeBz]

Is the flat a long term let or a holiday let? if its a holiday let then the requirement for the smoke / heat detectors are now a requirement in England (not if its a long term let).
The bathroom light I would always install IPX4 or above, even if its over 2.25mts high - "external influences" (steam - potential water splash) come into play

It’s a long term let. I found this which confirms what you say: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...e-private-rented-sector-landlords-and-tenants

The bathroom light isn’t directly above the bath or sink but it’s a small room so no problem with the requirement for an IP rated fitting.

It doesn’t augur well that he thinks an under rated MCB is dangerous. Overrated (for the wiring) I can see would be dangerous.

 

[binky]

It doesn’t augur well that he thinks an under rated MCB is dangerous. Overrated (for the wiring) I can see would be dangerous.

If they were undersized they would be tripping regularly.