Electrical Newbie trying to install Hue GU10s. Advice needed

[walph]

Hi everyone. Hoping you can give me some advice, as I can’t find anything conclusive on Google searches. 
 

I bought some Hue GU10 bulbs (the new, smaller Bluetooth models) on Prime Day and was hoping to switch them out in my bathroom so that I can dim them, and the kids can enjoy colourful bath times etc. 
 

Unfortunately after removing the existing downlighter I have found out that they are ‘lampless’ and the bulb cannot be removed. 
 

So I figure I need new GU10 enclosures for the Hue bulbs I just bought. 

I’m planning on buying IP65 fire rated down light enclosures, but I’m a bit worried about how small the recess is, and the proximity of the insulation (I’ve taken video incase that helps.  please see the video link below):

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AjRfGX5nEMowgXmtnbe5Q7giOuRg

The existing down lights are quite small (only 53mm deep) due to the integrated lamp, and the insulation is very close. Actually it probably touches them once installed. I guess the integrated lamps don’t require the same ventilation as a halogen GU10 enclosure, or are somehow designed to be safe to touch the insulation. I tried to show this in the video using a tape measure. 
 

Can anyone advise if it’s safe to install these new Hue GU10 bulbs so close to the insulation? Despite being LED, and the actual lamp face being quite cool even during use, my other Hue bulbs get very hot at the base (presumably because of the zigbee component) and I don’t want to cause a fire risk.

If it’s safe to do, can anyone recommend a good enclosure that meets the IP65/fire rating/insulation requirements? And is also safe to fit so close to the insulation?

Sorry for the lengthy post, and thanks in advance of ANY help/advice you can offer. I have these awesome new bulbs and not sure how to install them for now 

 

[NozSpark]

I'd imagine that you'll suffer from a reduced lamp life rather than an increased risk of fire due to the lamps being too close to the insulation.... I'd just push the insulation away a little.

The main problem that you're going to have is finding a fitting that is the same size as the hole that you have... IP65 lights tend to need a much bigger hole.... also there looks to be a driver supplying those fittings,,, just make sure that you remove this too when you change them over

 

[walph]

I'd imagine that you'll suffer from a reduced lamp life rather than an increased risk of fire due to the lamps being too close to the insulation.... I'd just push the insulation away a little.

The main problem that you're going to have is finding a fitting that is the same size as the hole that you have... IP65 lights tend to need a much bigger hole.... also there looks to be a driver supplying those fittings,,, just make sure that you remove this too when you change them over

Hi. Thanks for the reply . Good to know that the closeness of the insulation isn’t too much of a fire risk. I’ll try to find a short can GU10 housing that fits. 
 

On the subject of the driver, that’s something that I hadn’t even considered to be honest. (total electrical newbie here!)

I remember there was a small white/clear plastic clip that connects the black wire to the mains/grey wire. Not sure if that’s what you’re referring to? I’ll try to take a picture and add it later on, as I’d be interested to know what you think.....

 

[NozSpark]

Hi. Thanks for the reply . Good to know that the closeness of the insulation isn’t too much of a fire risk. I’ll try to find a short can GU10 housing that fits. 

On the subject of the driver, that’s something that I hadn’t even considered to be honest. (total electrical newbie here!)

I remember there was a small white/clear plastic clip that connects the black wire to the mains/grey wire. Not sure if that’s what you’re referring to? I’ll try to take a picture and add it later on, as I’d be interested to know what you think.....

Then I'd suggest that you need to get someone into do this for you,,, just to make sure that it's done safely

 

[Doc Hudson]

Then I'd suggest that you need to get someone into do this for you,,, just to make sure that it's done safely

Ditto!

Doc H.

 

[walph]

Ditto!

Doc H.

Thanks guys. Sounds like you may be right. Here’s a photo of the connector. If it’s as simple as switching the upstairs electrics off (via the main circuit breaker) and then wiring the new GU10 housing into the connector, then I’m definitely capable of doing that.... but if there’s a driver somewhere, that may be over and above my skill level!
 

I’ve attached a picture, and would be interested to know what you think 

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjRfGX5nEMowgXqfVRgprsxUeLF6

 

[Doc Hudson]

Thanks guys. Sounds like you may be right. Here’s a photo of the connector. If it’s as simple as switching the upstairs electrics off (via the main circuit breaker) and then wiring the new GU10 housing into the connector, then I’m definitely capable of doing that.... but if there’s a driver somewhere, that may be over and above my skill level!
 

I’ve attached a picture, and would be interested to know what you think 

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjRfGX5nEMowgXqfVRgprsxUeLF6

That looks very much like a 12volt connector to me.  the other end of that wire will be the elusive transformer or driver converting the 230v mains supply. It will be the 230v cables you need to supply the GU10's with an appropriate enclosure & connectors.

Doc H.

 

[NozSpark]

Definitely an ELV connector.... this is a picture of the complete light fitting,,,,, so, you're looking for the green box

 

[walph]

Definitely an ELV connector.... this is a picture of the complete light fitting,,,,, so, you're looking for the green box

View attachment 10419

Thanks guys - this has been really informative. I had no idea there would be these additional green box drivers up there in the ceiling!

Before I decide to take this on myself or get an electrician in to do the work, please can I trouble you with a couple more questions?:

1. Is there usually a green box for every downlighter? Or will there be just one box driving all of the lights?

2. Will the new GU10 downlighter housing units not need these green boxes? Or would they connect straight to the mains without the need for a transformer/driver?

 

[Murdoch]

Sounds like you need a spark ........

Best get a couple round to discuss and get quotes done.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Thanks guys - this has been really informative. I had no idea there would be these additional green box drivers up there in the ceiling!

Before I decide to take this on myself or get an electrician in to do the work, please can I trouble you with a couple more questions?:

1. Is there usually a green box for every downlighter? Or will there be just one box driving all of the lights?

2. Will the new GU10 downlighter housing units not need these green boxes? Or would they connect straight to the mains without the need for a transformer/driver?

1. The transformer (green box) is the part that converts mains voltage down to 12v. You can get transformers of numerous output ratings, so some can operate multiple lights or others that can only operate a single light. It is impossible to say what arrangement you have got over the internet. Bit like asking how bright are the lights? you would need to see the actual item & the specifications to answer those questions.

2. GU10 lamps are mains voltage, so they do not have any transformers to convert to 12volt.

But as Murdoch suggest, see if you can get two or three electricians willing to do a site visit and provide some costs for the work you need doing.

Doc H.

 

[walph]

1. The transformer (green box) is the part that converts mains voltage down to 12v. You can get transformers of numerous output ratings, so some can operate multiple lights or others that can only operate a single light. It is impossible to say what arrangement you have got over the internet. Bit like asking how bright are the lights? you would need to see the actual item & the specifications to answer those questions.

2. GU10 lamps are mains voltage, so they do not have any transformers to convert to 12volt.

But as Murdoch suggest, see if you can get two or three electricians willing to do a site visit and provide some costs for the work you need doing.

Doc H.

Thanks everyone - yes sounds like I need a spark. I’ll get some quotes. Thanks for all of your patient advice. It’s rare not to get instantly yelled at ‘for being a noob’ on the internet these days, so I appreciate you all taking the time to reply. 
 

Have a Great weekend