Eu Vote
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septiclecky
Distinguished Member
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
More recently Ukraine?
Poland and Hungary were rather a long time ago....
The Ukraine is just Russia trying to get back states it believes belong to it, bit like the brits in lreland trying to hold on to something,[Not taking sides here Steps!!] or, the falklands... How can anyone think the falklands really belong to us.....
Now, let me see who us or our "allies" have bombed etc...
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/US_Bombing_campaigns_since_1945
john..
The Ukraine is just Russia trying to get back states it believes belong to it, bit like the brits in lreland trying to hold on to something,[Not taking sides here Steps!!] or, the falklands... How can anyone think the falklands really belong to us.....
Now, let me see who us or our "allies" have bombed etc...
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/US_Bombing_campaigns_since_1945
john..
septiclecky
Distinguished Member
and not forgetting the occupation of the whole of Eastern Europe. As for bits of the Ukraine / Crimea belonging to Russia, that is a hangover from Stalin who moved people around the USSR to mix up the various populations in an attempt to integrate the different factions under his control. Lets us not forget the mostly unreported war against the Muslim populations of the southern parts of the USSR, and their general sponsoring of 'freedom fighters' around the world as part of the cold war against the USA, not that the yanks were any better. They just loved sponsoring right wing dictators, Saddam being one of those.
So what, the americans killed the entire native american indian race, look at the things britain has done, India?? If they had a war against muslims, in the southern part of the USSR, then good for them, bit more of that wopuld do nicely.. All they say about Saddam, how do you know it is true?? After all, he had "weapons of mass destruction" [not]
Granted stalin was crackers, but i think he killed more of his own people then anyones elses!!
john..
Granted stalin was crackers, but i think he killed more of his own people then anyones elses!!
john..
so did Saddam if you include the wars against the Kurds and Iran. Like Stalin he started a hero, but turned despot, his brother was probably worse - he ran security. Hitler had some good ideas too, like building the Autobahn network using manual labour to give people work rather than using machiney. No one is all bad.
How do we know anything is true John, have a look at Amnesty International. I was going to post a link, but seeing as that was from the American government, I wouldn't take too much notice. We also all know thw WMD argument was bull, it was just an excuse to finish what we should have finished when we freed Kuwait
As for the old imperalist days, no civilisation is guilt free, they have all murdered and killed their neighbours in large quantities at some point. Europe was better at it, same as slavery, we took a cottage industry and industrialised it. Whole fishing fleets used to disappear from English waters, taken by Barbary pirates and sold into slavery, the slave trade was well established long before we got involved. The other little point people like to over look was the involvement of black people - those on the coast who used to go i land to raid other black tribes and sell them to us to transport abroad. It wasn't just a 'white' crime. What is depressing / bewildering is that despite all the well documented history man kind doesn't seem to learn and keeps repeating the same old lettuced time and again.
Anyway, we digress. I've yet to hear an argument for staying in the EU other than scaremongering, though I understand farmers aren't keen to leave because they rely on the EU handouts in already very difficult times - better the devil you know syndrome!
How do we know anything is true John, have a look at Amnesty International. I was going to post a link, but seeing as that was from the American government, I wouldn't take too much notice. We also all know thw WMD argument was bull, it was just an excuse to finish what we should have finished when we freed Kuwait
As for the old imperalist days, no civilisation is guilt free, they have all murdered and killed their neighbours in large quantities at some point. Europe was better at it, same as slavery, we took a cottage industry and industrialised it. Whole fishing fleets used to disappear from English waters, taken by Barbary pirates and sold into slavery, the slave trade was well established long before we got involved. The other little point people like to over look was the involvement of black people - those on the coast who used to go i land to raid other black tribes and sell them to us to transport abroad. It wasn't just a 'white' crime. What is depressing / bewildering is that despite all the well documented history man kind doesn't seem to learn and keeps repeating the same old lettuced time and again.
Anyway, we digress. I've yet to hear an argument for staying in the EU other than scaremongering, though I understand farmers aren't keen to leave because they rely on the EU handouts in already very difficult times - better the devil you know syndrome!
Hi Binky,
It was the idiot farmers that got us into it in the first place... Apparently, agriculture is still one of britains biggest employers?? Can that be right?? Anyway, all the farmers will vote to stay in as they want the CAP thing..
What you say about slavery is EXACTLY right. I do not feel sorry for slaves at all. Look what went on here. Given that little kids had to work down the mines, and in cotton mills, and were forced up chimneys, where more than a few got trapped and died, i would have thought picking cotton in the nice warm southern states, would have been rather nice.... [Cannot please some folk]
john..
It was the idiot farmers that got us into it in the first place... Apparently, agriculture is still one of britains biggest employers?? Can that be right?? Anyway, all the farmers will vote to stay in as they want the CAP thing..
What you say about slavery is EXACTLY right. I do not feel sorry for slaves at all. Look what went on here. Given that little kids had to work down the mines, and in cotton mills, and were forced up chimneys, where more than a few got trapped and died, i would have thought picking cotton in the nice warm southern states, would have been rather nice.... [Cannot please some folk]
john..
phil d
Well-known member
For me it has to be out,those of us old enough to remember the days before the EU will remember the industries that we had,we were truly a world player,the money we pay each day to be a member of the "club" could be put to far better uses at home,eg within a couple of weeks we could sort out the NHS.I also strongly object to other countries telling us how to deal with our internal affairs,We have some nasty criminals,they get caught,sentenced and locked up,then some bleeding heart in Brussels decides that "oh no,jailing that multiple rapist/paedophile/robber for 30 odd years is excessive and cruel,you must cut it by half" then factor in parole,time off for good behaviour etc and the evil piece of scum ends up doing about 5 years!
Then there is the much vaunted Shengen agreement,this was designed to permit citizens of european countries to travel easier between member states,now people seem to want to use it to let alleged refugees that enter their country to migrate freely to any part of europe.
Then we have the rest of the eu wanting to tell us how many refugees we must allow into our country,now I'll tell you how I see this ending up.they'll fill Britain with all of europes unwanted and undesirables then tighten up border controls,thereby keeping all the bad apples in one place in much the same way as the Americans did with Alcatraz!
look at the French for example,they are not really concerned with dealing with the migrant situation by stopping them entering France,rather they seem very keen on letting them make their way over here,ok so this week they've begun to dismantle the camp known as "the jungle" but in my opinion this is only a token gesture.No I'm sorry,but I firmly believe that it's time we left,we are not,have never been and never will be a part of mainland europe,we are an island and despite what the scaremongers will have you believe we have to be better coming out.
Then there is the much vaunted Shengen agreement,this was designed to permit citizens of european countries to travel easier between member states,now people seem to want to use it to let alleged refugees that enter their country to migrate freely to any part of europe.
Then we have the rest of the eu wanting to tell us how many refugees we must allow into our country,now I'll tell you how I see this ending up.they'll fill Britain with all of europes unwanted and undesirables then tighten up border controls,thereby keeping all the bad apples in one place in much the same way as the Americans did with Alcatraz!
look at the French for example,they are not really concerned with dealing with the migrant situation by stopping them entering France,rather they seem very keen on letting them make their way over here,ok so this week they've begun to dismantle the camp known as "the jungle" but in my opinion this is only a token gesture.No I'm sorry,but I firmly believe that it's time we left,we are not,have never been and never will be a part of mainland europe,we are an island and despite what the scaremongers will have you believe we have to be better coming out.
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
Well I'd say that's the best therapy I've had in a long time! 
think the latest net migration figure is 300,000 more people moved here last year than left, that's another city bigger than Plymouth, you can't tell me that isn't affecting employment for those born here, the NHS, roads, etc etc.
which, reportedly, is less than half the number of new NI numbers issued by HMRC to "foreigners" last year.
What I understand is why HMRC won't release any numbers about NI numbers issued and how many people are "using them" - in their words "this information won't be helpful to the current debate" - the question then is - not helpful to WHO?
http://order-order.com/2015/12/17/migration-data-suppressed-as-unhelpful-to-renegotiation-process/
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
That's because the 300,000 is the legal entrants, the Unknown figure is the asylum seekers, refugees, illegals etc all who get issued with a NI number.
And I know that as fact!
And I know that as fact!
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that figure is the difference between those coming in and those leaving, so the number of new NI numbers will be quite a bit higher.
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics
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and so the latest is BMW telling their workers to vote IN and the French waning of dire consequences if we leave. So we are being told how to vote by the French and Gemans....
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That alone is reason to vote OUT.
it would be cheaper to pay them to go home, plane ticket and £1k, firk off back to Swaziland (does that sound like Enoch Powell? )
