fiat ulysse has ignition lights but nothing on the turn over on the key - non starter, but...

[a1]

Hi all,

I have a strange onw with my Fiat Ulysse N reg, 2.0 Litre, petrol.

Mrs Admin, drove it to pick the children up before the school holidays, she called in the shop first and when she came out, the car wouldn't start.

She said that all ignition lights were on, but when she tried to turn it over on the key to start it, there was nothing happening. Not even a click - She could hear the "Injection system", but nothing else.

Mrs Admin, walked to school to get our children, and they all walked home, in the pouring down rain. I went down later to where she had parked the car, turned the key and it started. (about 2 hours after).

The same thing happened Yesterday, we used the car to go to town, no problem - we returned home, no problem, Mrs Admin then needed to pop back down as we had forgetten something. Then - you guessed it, the same problem - there was ignition lights, but nothing on the turn over on the key. Approximately 1pm. I went out to check again at 9-9.30 pm and it started. It started this morning too.

I connected a jump lead from the negatative terminal of the car battery, to the engine - to rule of an earth problem. Same problem!

If it was an immobilisor issue, then it would still turn over but not start.

If it was the starter motor, then one of the ignition lights would be "out".

I even rolled the car back, while in gear, in case the starter was jammed. But no, it wasn't that either.

The battery is new, and I can rule that out.

I even took off the double relay and had a look in there, but it all appeared well.

It is strange how it is intermittant, and only happens now and again.

Anyone have any idea as to why this is like this? Maybe one for Sindwinders friend?

C7uWS3jGgZM

All help is appreciated,

Many thanks,

Admin.

 

[Andy™]

probably solenoid on starter. thick bit of wire to bypass the solenoid will tell you if its that ( and lots of care obviously)

 

[NozSpark]

+1

Probably the solenoid on your starter motor, most modern starters are pre engaged - solenoid pushes out gear and operates contacts which allows the motor to operate

 

[Sidewinder]

Is the starter relay, NOT the solenoid clicking, I can't tell from the video?

 

[a1]

Sidewinder, the only thing that I can ever hear when this happens is the whining of the Injection system on the first turn of the key. Nothing else at all mate.

 

[Sidewinder]

OK, you need to start with the starter relay or the wiring to and from this then I suspect as your first port of call.

Perhaps a temp earth would be a good start.

The ignition relay is OK as the fuel pump is priming.

Is this a Magneti Marelli engine management system or is it separate fuel injection and electronic ignition?

 

[a1]

I will have to check the wires to the starter too, for any breaks.

 

[kme]

iirc, its a Marelli.

Its not jammed; lights don`t seem to dim (at all) ; which tends to suggest relay / switch issue.

It didn`t sound like the solenoid operated; so the first check I`d do would be starter relay, to see if turning ignition to "start" puts voltage to relay coil.

It may also be worth looking at the "brain"; some of them have a fault light which flashes a certainnumber of times, to indicate a particular fault.

I`ll have a look on the Autodata program in the garage on monday, if you pm the model details across for me

 

[a1]

Is this a Magneti Marelli engine management system or is it separate fuel injection and electronic ignition?

I would say so; yes, Sidewinder.

There's a Magneti Marelli ECU and Magneti Marelli Engine Idler (idle) valve on it, mate.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 18:58 ---------- Previous post was made at 18:56 ----------

iirc, its a Marelli.Its not jammed; lights don`t seem to dim (at all) ; which tends to suggest relay / switch issue.

It didn`t sound like the solenoid operated; so the first check I`d do would be starter relay, to see if turning ignition to "start" puts voltage to relay coil.

It may also be worth looking at the "brain"; some of them have a fault light which flashes a certainnumber of times, to indicate a particular fault.

I`ll have a look on the Autodata program in the garage on monday, if you pm the model details across for me

Thanks KME - PM sent.

You know, it may have something to do with the "Cylinder head gasket" going too? All to do with heat? But I am almost certain that the first time it happened to Mrs Admin, the car was not warm? I will have to double check with here.

PS. Thanks to you two guys above for your input too.

 

[batty]

Bloody cars we had an MG Maestro that used to do similar would not start for love nor money leave it for half an hour go back and it would start just like that could never get to the bottom of it got rid of it in the end.

 

[mikep]

First of all when it does it check the terminal on the starter solenoid that comes from the ignition, small wire about 2.5mm flex, I worked for a Ford main dealer for 27 years and a common problem would be this terminal would be corroded, after that check that you have 13.8volts when the ignition key turned to the cranking position at this terminal if not work it back could be something like alarm etc.

You can test if the starter at this terminal to energise the starter, works by making up a lead to activate the starter but make sure it is out of gear hand brake on.

Originally the ignition key would supply 12v to relay bolted on an inner wing but now they go through an ECU with combined burglar alarm, the relay is now fitted to the starter motor and engages the gear on the starter to the engine and energises the starter at the same time.

No noise when turned not even a small relay click in fusebox at all !!

Mike

 

[revjames]

I have had these problems and one way is a smack with a hammer while turning the key. Just tap the solenoid

 

[Evans Electric]

Is as simple as a loose connection on the battery , good enough for ignition lights, fuel pumps but not for the much bigger load of cranking the engine.

 

[Andy™]

Is as simple as a loose connection on the battery , good enough for ignition lights, fuel pumps but not for the much bigger load of cranking the engine.

i would expect all lights on the dash to dim when trying to start if that was the problem

 

[Evans Electric]

I'll go with that Andy.

I can't offer much help , couldn't get my old Escort to start. :C

 

[kme]

This a.m. suggestion was crankshaft sensor; which sounded wrong. Then I realised they didn`t realise that starter wasn`t operating. headbang

Ignore the text msg "Winalot"; it can`t be the issue - we`ll see what other gems of wisdom they provide......once I describe it correctly!

KME

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was made at 10:42 ----------

Ok.

Now we`re getting somewhere.

Almost certain to be a relay - he can`t say for sure because:

1. He hasn`t seen it (if you want to bring it over....he`ll diagnose )

2. There was more than 1 electrical layout on them that year.......

HTH

KME

 

[a1]

Cheers Chum,

Car is going at the moment, but when the issue comes back, I will be unable to start it to take it there for a diagnostics mate. :_|

Thanks very much.

B-I-L said it had to be a relay somewhere too. :_|

 

[a1]

UPDATE:

Re-checked wiring to starter - looked alright - Tried again, Still no Joy. Tried the old "Tap the Starter motor" and it started. Happy days.

 

[revjames]

I don't know how many times and how many different vehicles that has worked on!

 

[a1]

Very true Rev, but it didn't work the last time I tried it.