Fire alarm pannel power

[danny7299]

Am I right in thinking that the supply to a fire alarm pannel has to be wired in fire proof cable ?

 

[sparkytim]

Yes

 

[matt.leung]

+1

 

[danny7299]

I thought so just been to do a quote , and the bloke tells me that the shop had been rewired 2 years ago , looked at the fire pannel and the main supply Is in t &e , and the Consumer unit is totally full ! They wanted me to quote for 5 more circuits .

Cheers all

 

[russ9898]

Just to add the supply also needs to be fed from as close to the origin of the buildings supply as possible. So if there are multiple boards in needs to be from the main board that supplies any sub boards

 

[septiclecky]

Yes

For information what regulation states this is so?

 

[kme]

BS 5839-1:

25.2 (supply as near as practicable to origin), and

26.1 ( supply cable capable of withstanding fire)

HTH

KME

 

[septiclecky]

BS 5839-1:25.2 (supply as near as practicable to origin), and

26.1 ( supply cable capable of withstanding fire)

HTH

KME

Cheers for that.

It is just that some people ask questions like this and all the answer is yes but it would be nice if there was further info supporting their answer.

 

[accordfire]

Cheers for that.It is just that some people ask questions like this and all the answer is yes but it would be nice if there was further info supporting their answer.

The regs quoted are right - but there is also a requirement to ensure that the FCU cannot be disconnected accidentally. This can be done in two ways - either by fitting the FCU in an enclosure with a lock, or by fitting a lockable FCU such as made by MK.

All FCU's must be double pole too.

 

[septiclecky]

The regs quoted are right - but there is also a requirement to ensure that the FCU cannot be disconnected accidentally. This can be done in two ways - either by fitting the FCU in an enclosure with a lock, or by fitting a lockable FCU such as made by MK.All FCU's must be double pole too.

Or the third one which is an unswitched FCU so if the fuse where to be removed it would not be classed as an accident.

 

[accordfire]

Or the third one which is an unswitched FCU so if the fuse where to be removed it would not be classed as an accident.

Sorry, no.

Doesn't comply. It has to be lockable if there is a risk of tampering. Probably poor choice of words on my part earlier.

Cheers.

Bill.

 

[Sidewinder]

accordfire,

Can you please elaborate on why an unswitched fcu is unacceptable please?

The fcu fuse would need a screwdriver to remove the fuse, with a screwdriver one could open up the distribution board and disconnect the supply live conductor.

Surely this is the "same" act.

I don't do much alarm stuff so I am equating these actions to those legislated elsewhere and other similar situations in other BS's.

Asking really to grow the knowledge base in here.

 

[accordfire]

accordfire,Can you please elaborate on why an unswitched fcu is unacceptable please?

The fcu fuse would need a screwdriver to remove the fuse, with a screwdriver one could open up the distribution board and disconnect the supply live conductor.

Surely this is the "same" act.

I don't do much alarm stuff so I am equating these actions to those legislated elsewhere and other similar situations in other BS's.

Asking really to grow the knowledge base in here.

Hi

Yes - BS5839-1:2002+A2:2008, Section 2, reg 25.2, clause g.

Every isolator, switch and protective device that is capable of disconnecting the mains supply to the fire alarm system should be situated in a position inaccessible to unauthorized persons or be protected against unauthorized operation by persons without a special tool.

That's further supplemented by Note 4:

NOTE 4 A special tool may, for example, be a key actuator (sometimes called

 

[Sidewinder]

DB areas will not always be out of bounds!

I have several customers where the practice is to isolate all non required circuits at the mcb at the end of the day!

This is done by the guy locking up and no they aren't skilled persons in the idea of 7671.

However the rest of this I get, thanks for the explanation, shows I haven't read my copy of the std!

Added:>>

What about tamperproof drivers?

Perhaps tri lobed, tamperproof torx, or the castle type AKA system zero?

Such as:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4447891#header

There are others.

Again not criticising just trying to get an idea of your thoughts.

Paul

 

[accordfire]

DB areas will not always be out of bounds!I have several customers where the practice is to isolate all non required circuits at the mcb at the end of the day!

This is done by the guy locking up and no they aren't skilled persons in the idea of 7671.

However the rest of this I get, thanks for the explanation, shows I haven't read my copy of the std!

Added:>>

What about tamperproof drivers?

Perhaps tri lobed, tamperproof torx, or the castle type AKA system zero?

Such as:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4447891#header

There are others.

Again not criticising just trying to get an idea of your thoughts.

Paul

I agree totally with you Paul - it's a regulation for the sake of regulation in my humble book.

But yes, if the fuse carrier is held in place with a torx, or tri-lobe, it should comply. Generally, I think they're still considered "special" tools, though you can get either off the shelf at Maplin these days.

Sounds like your customers are a good reason for clause F though lol - labelling!

Oh - the standard ain't perfect by a long shot! I have days too where I seem to spend more time on the phone getting clarification of some reg or another than anything else.....just like 7671 really

Bill.

 

[Sidewinder]

Cool ta!

 

[wozz]

HiYes - BS5839-1:2002+A2:2008, Section 2, reg 25.2, clause g.

Every isolator, switch and protective device that is capable of disconnecting the mains supply to the fire alarm system should be situated in a position inaccessible to unauthorized persons or be protected against unauthorized operation by persons without a special tool.

That's further supplemented by Note 4:

NOTE 4 A special tool may, for example, be a key actuator (sometimes called

 

[wozz]

HiYes - BS5839-1:2002+A2:2008, Section 2, reg 25.2, clause g.

Every isolator, switch and protective device that is capable of disconnecting the mains supply to the fire alarm system should be situated in a position inaccessible to unauthorized persons or be protected against unauthorized operation by persons without a special tool.

That's further supplemented by Note 4:

NOTE 4 A special tool may, for example, be a key actuator (sometimes called

 

[Manator]

so the mains intake and and fuseboard will have to be locked to achieve compliance?

In short no, compliance in this case would mean correct visual labeling and warning label to identify the circuit.

On a recent pir I found a lock out kit applied to the fire alarm system, now you can see the potential danger of this practice.

Needless to say I cut the padlock off the mcb.

As with BS7671 deviations are allowed but must be recorded and agreed with the system designer.

 

[Manator]

so the mains intake and and fuseboard will have to be locked to achieve compliance?

In short no, compliance in this case would mean correct visual labeling and warning label to identify the circuit.

On a recent pir I found a lock out kit applied to the fire alarm system, now you can see the potential danger of this practice.

Needless to say I cut the padlock off the mcb.

As with BS7671 deviations are allowed but must be recorded and agreed with the system designer.