Help for making a decision about former employer

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

You have contradicted yourself that you had been given no protective clothing, but state you were wearing the company uniform, was it returned in a clean state. Have you also thought that as you carried out some remedial works, a 3 signature certificate may have been issued with your name quite rightly inserted in the installation box ?

 

[steve_uktv]

i havent contradicted myself at all...the protective clothing was my own and never supplied by the company...plus i was attending a domestic property where no protective clothing is required... i simply was wearing...copany jacket with logo and tel number , i.d badge and work trousers...

also it is my SIGNITURE along with my name on the cert , are you saying its legal to forge my actual signature?

please read the full post

 

[steve_uktv]

i think you are getting a little mixed up...i wasnt doing a remedial when i was dimissed , i was attending a domestic property to carry out p.a.t testing on appliances, the remedial work was done at an earlier date.

I also used my own uniform in this instance not that of the companies and btw i have all my own tools ...that i was also charged for

I always use my own tools , i never recieved protective clothing fro the company, and all clothing that was supplied ie: jacket and badge was returned on site to himself .

 

[steve_uktv]

if he was to fill in an inspection form then would he require my signature ?

surely he cannot just put my name ...i have been assured that there is a signature with my name writte underneath it ...

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hello steve

If I were you I would get round first thing in the morning to get a copy of these forms in case they disappear!! :|

Were you told in writing that your employment was termination?

Have you ever been warned before about conduct ?

:coffee

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

if he was to fill in an inspection form then would he require my signature ?surely he cannot just put my name ...i have been assured that there is a signature with my name write underneath it ...

Look at ALL of the model forms in BS7671

Appendix 6 Page 331 onward...

They ALL have signed and wriiten boxes for the names!

ut the kettle on

 

[steve_uktv]

was informed in writing about 3 days later and there are no complaints about me or written warnings that i am aware of ...

my former employer is unaware that i even know about the forged signature , he will be content that all is in order since i still worked for him a short while after the work had taken place...it wasnt until a recent conversation with the home manager that i was aware the work had been certified and that my signature was on the form...as far as i knew work was still outstanding !!

but i have been informed that the corrective work i mentioned earlier has not been done but the pir forms have ben submitted with a satisfactory status.

I never signed this form ...

hopefully they can tell an origonal from a forgery!!

The reason i was dismissed was nothing to do with any remedial work and was based on his assumption that i was working by myself and using the company name and tools etc for p.a.t testing work.

I would imagine that he will say i had no permission to do this...

following a call from a customer it was explained that they needed some equipment testing asap and would i do it.

I answered yes and explaned that i would charge

 

[steve_uktv]

anyway continue the post tomorrow guys simply because i am soooo tired ...i will keep everone informed as to the outcome ...thx for listening guys

 

[Apache]

I'm not suprised the police are interested in the forged signature - that is fraud and a criminal offence.

AFAIK it is possible to sack someone for 'gross misconduct' on the spot, it circumvents the normal verbal/written warning procedure. That said there is no evidence of that happening and an employment tribuneral would almost certianally find in your favour. You wouldn't get your job back - you'd get compensation.

IMO - as yet I would leave the NICEIC out of it until you knew more about the police side of the investigation. The police may make contact with the NICEIC and it's more likely to rattle their cages IMO.

Hope things work out for you!

 

[a1]

The arse He kicks today, He will have to kiss tomorrow mate AndyGuinness

:Applaud :Applaud:Applaud:Applaud

I like that Andy. Never heard that one before.

 

[ianmacd]

I'm not suprised the police are interested in the forged signature - that is fraud and a criminal offence. AFAIK it is possible to sack someone for 'gross misconduct' on the spot, it circumvents the normal verbal/written warning procedure. That said there is no evidence of that happening and an employment tribuneral would almost certianally find in your favour. You wouldn't get your job back - you'd get compensation.

IMO - as yet I would leave the NICEIC out of it until you knew more about the police side of the investigation. The police may make contact with the NICEIC and it's more likely to rattle their cages IMO.

Hope things work out for you!

Agreed. Gross misconduct is reserved for things like theft, assults etc... If you are doing something you have always done without question then they will have no real defence in a tribunal. Suggest you contact acas.

 

[a1]

A lot of the things that I was going to suggest, have already been suggested by other members.

Ie: Get photocopies of the paperwork, preferably countersigned by the Children's Home Manager.

Can we clear something up here?

You mention that whilst on the Job, you noticed remedial work to be done, such as 10mm T&E loosely along the wall to kitchen, broken faceplates, no blanks in the DB and DB not correctly/or not labelled etc.

You suggested a Periodic Inspection be carried out, and a report made out, to your boss (PIR) after you discussed it with the Children's Home Management? Correct.

He and the Children's Home management agreed, and the PIR was carried out by your boss? Correct?

When this PIR was carried out, Can you confirm that you were actually there, doing the PIR with your old Boss?

Naturally a Periodic Inspection Report would be completed for this.

I am confused as to where the Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) idea is coming from. (With regards to the 3 part counter signature boxes).

Are you saying that your boss (and possibly yourself, too), did the PIR, found remedial work, recorded it and it was agreed with the Children's Home Management that the remedial work was to be carried out by your boss who is an NICEIC Approved Contractor?

Your old boss, then allegedly did the remedial work, and issued the cert.

But it is alleged that your old boss, didn't do the remedial work, and not only issued a EIC, and but issued a cert with your Name and Signature on it to the Client? (The client in this case Is the Children's Home Management).

Have I got that 100% correct above? If I haven't, please correct any bits that I have incorrect please?

Also, If I understand correctly - you state that all your tools were your own and None were provided by your ex-boss. Later on you say that your boss "sets you up in an ambush" and asked you to hand over the company property, including a Tester, Screwdrivers etc. - May seem picky, but I assure you, that that is NOT the case - I just want to try to understand it 100%.

 

[steve_uktv]

the only tools used from the company were a pat tester and few screwdrivers, rest was mine and they was returned in person to him on that exact day .

When i applied for the job i told im i have all my own tools and the only equipment i required was the p.a.t tester itself.

Through a period of time i had aquired some extra tools simply by working along side him on big jobs , factories etc.

Like i said all these were returned on the same day i was dismissed.

Now to clear up the remedial work.

I was called to a childrens home to carryout testing on approx 50 items.

The customer dealt with me directly as was always the case and i arranged a time to come round and do the work

I was initially called in for p.a.t test work only.

Whilst i was doing the testing i noticed various things that were deemed to be unsafe and needed rectifying.

The home manager informed me that they needed a test certificate for the local authorities and could we do that too?

I called the office and spoke to my boss`s secretary (his wife) and they said yes.

Since it was rather a large building it would take some time to complete so they requested i helped to speed things up.

i Agreed.

We came in a few days later to do the pir and found various things wrong and my boss quoted for the necessary works.

We spent a full day on the job and i helped.

Unfortunately the job couldnt be completed in one day so we called back at an arranged time approx 3 days later.

The job continued with both of us there.

At the end of the day my boss returned with a folder containing paperwork and since the work had not yet been completed i assumed it was the p.a.t testing asset records etc.

I never saw this paperwork and i didnt sign anything.

I was later to learn obviously that it was indeed the pir with satisfactory conclusion that he had given them and yet i know to this day the work has not been completed.

I never returned to the childrens home because i wasnt asked to and i continued to work for a few more weeks soley as a p.a.t tester.

Remedial work was not my usual work so i had no need to question things .

so

"Are you saying that your boss (and possibly yourself, too), did the PIR, found remedial work, recorded it and it was agreed with the Children's Home Management that the remedial work was to be carried out by your boss who is an NICEIC Approved Contractor?

CORRECT

"He and the Children's Home management agreed, and the PIR was carried out by your boss? Correct?

NO I HELPED TOO

"When this PIR was carried out, Can you confirm that you were actually there, doing the PIR with your old Boss?

YES I WAS HELPING

I at no point ever saw any certification either periodic or installation, i simply know that whatever the form is my signature is present although i didnt sign it , and after speaking to the home manager i am definite the work has not been completed.

So it worries me that my signature is on paperwork that in my opinion is not correct and i still deem the property to be unsafe " ie: db blank missing , direct contact probable"

Then came the scenario of my dismissal which is a totally seperate issue.

i will later type out the exact wording of my dismissal form for you to see (minus company name of course)

 

[steve_uktv]

"But it is alleged that your old boss, didn't do the remedial work, and not only issued a EIC, and but issued a cert with your Name and Signature on it to the Client? (The client in this case Is the Children's Home Management)."

CORRECT

 

[a1]

Thank You Steve. I appreciate that.

 

[steve_uktv]

most welcome

 

[a1]

Good Luck and keep us informed, Mate.

 

[steve_uktv]

Dismissal read as follows

formal notification of termination of employment

This is the written notification to acknowledge the termintion of employment of ******** due to gross misconduct,after been found to be using company equipment(including test meter , labels,tools and spares),the companys uniform and insurance and good name without permission and without declaring the work to us or HM Revenue and Customs.

The last day of employment was APRIL 15th 2010.

You were asked to return all p.p.e ,tools ,tool bags,spares and uniform including boots and high visibility jacket.

All were returned with the exception of the tools and high visibility jacket, which you will be charged for.

The following deductions will e made from your last wage packet,as the agreement was that the employee would pay for the items if they leave or their contract is terminated before a year of employment.

TOOLS provided by ******for the job

 

[steve_uktv]

all of the aove fabrication i might add

 

[ianmacd]

How do they know that you failed to declare anything to HMRC? Would seek legal advise immediatly. I'm sure they will ask a few questions like:

How did this customer contact you, was that unusual and what happened on other occasions (if any)?

Does your contract allow for deductions as listed?

What tools are outstanding and did you sign for them?

What contractual agreement did you have R.E. the pat course?

What form of agreement was the loan made under?

Did you sign for the boots/jacket?

I would also suggest that they did not give to adiquate time to return any outstanding items so any charges made are unfair.

As I said, get legal advise ASAP.