Home Electrics Diy Competence -Vs- Need Qualified Electrician.

[Manator]

I have the actual figures here:

2005/2006   27

2006/2007   28

2007/2008   33

2008/2009   21

2009/2010   54

2010/2011   73

2011/2012   71

2012/2013   220

2013/2014   253

I have no idea why a big jump from 2012 to 2013, which large industry lost all their workers in those years?

Thing is about CU's if you go back far enough the incoming tails had 2 screws each, they didn't have flimsy busbars or flimsy MCB's or RCD's

I think the growth in the failures has more to do with the poor quality products (which allegedly meet the relevant standards) than sub standard installations........

This was one of my main issues. It would have been easier to make the boards with double screw clamps or even made it so that ferrules had to be used for all terminations.

However it is not the boards that were identified as the main cause it was poor workmanship. Sorry but that is the official cause.

 

[Lurch]

I have no idea why a big jump from 2012 to 2013, which large industry lost all their workers in those years?

Milk delivery?

I think the growth in the failures has more to do with the poor quality products (which allegedly meet the relevant standards) than sub standard installations........

Some truth in it, but there was definitely a sudden standards decline shortly after 2005.

 

[Blue Duck]

What is more amusing is the actual figures for the fires. In 2005 it was around 50 - 70 and in 2014 it was around 400 or more I can get the actual figures if anyone is interested. Funny how part p came out in 2005 which greatly coincides with an alarming increase

A coincidence perhaps?Let us not forget the great electrium recall, the smart meter roll out and bus loads of Pole's heading here to seek their fortune.

I know the trade has be dumbed down, not sure part pee is to blame but the Bucket loads of money from training centres, books and instrument sales may have had something to do with it....

I worked hard to get where I am and that's not far enough for me yet, just taking it easy while the kids are young.

I Was rather annoyed at the bloke down the street came up to me and said he was an electrician. I was like O RLY!? I thought you were a musician? 4 weeks later he's a sparky!

meh.

 

[Lurch]

Was rather annoyed at the bloke down the street came up to me and said he was an electrician I was like ORLY I thought you were a musician 4 weeks later hes a sparky!

I did a job the other week for a mate (change some motorised valves) and mentioned to the customer I was actually an electrician. Bloke said he was a van driver, did a course, became an electrician but couldn't find any work so took up van driving again.

 

[Essex1]

Part P is not really the reason for bad workmanship. It is the scemes that introduced DI 'competences'. Sort out these DI schemes and Part P can still exist. Actually I would want to see ALL electrical work notified. In order to notify you needed to be a scheme member but the government set the minimum qualification criteria. For me it would be a minimum of a JIB Gold Card. Nothing less.

 

[Andy™]

imagine having to notify replacing a broken light switch...

 

[Murdoch]

I have the actual figures here:

2005/2006   27

2006/2007   28

2007/2008   33

2008/2009   21

2009/2010   54

2010/2011   73

2011/2012   71

2012/2013   220

2013/2014   253

I have no idea why a big jump from 2012 to 2013, which large industry lost all their workers in those years?

This was one of my main issues. It would have been easier to make the boards with double screw clamps or even made it so that ferrules had to be used for all terminations.

However it is not the boards that were identified as the main cause it was poor workmanship. Sorry but that is the official cause.

Hum... let me think about that.... crxp products, difficult to tighten up properly - so poor workmanship was blamed. My guess is that Bema had a hand in the creation of the report.

Part P is not really the reason for bad workmanship. It is the scemes that introduced DI 'competences'. Sort out these DI schemes and Part P can still exist. Actually I would want to see ALL electrical work notified. In order to notify you needed to be a scheme member but the government set the minimum qualification criteria. For me it would be a minimum of a JIB Gold Card. Nothing less.

For what purpose?

Nothing will stop bob the builder or Pete from the pub, or Paul the plumber!

When Part P was changed in England I was happy about the shortened list but I think removing kitchens from the list was a really retrograde step as it allows Kev the kitchen fitter to strike again.

I used to get about 1 CU change per month on the earlier Part P rules - mostly from customers wanting it done before the kitchen gets upgraded - but that source of work dried up, and I see a rise in very poor electrical installations in kitchens again!

 

[Essex1]

imagine having to notify replacing a broken light switch...

Might get some respect as a trade then. It is only a click on a website for me.

Hum... let me think about that.... crxp products, difficult to tighten up properly - so poor workmanship was blamed. My guess is that Bema had a hand in the creation of the report.

For what purpose?

Nothing will stop bob the builder or Pete from the pub, or Paul the plumber!

When Part P was changed in England I was happy about the shortened list but I think removing kitchens from the list was a really retrograde step as it allows Kev the kitchen fitter to strike again.

I used to get about 1 CU change per month on the earlier Part P rules - mostly from customers wanting it done before the kitchen gets upgraded - but that source of work dried up, and I see a rise in very poor electrical installations in kitchens again!

Like you say you will never stop mates in the pub. What it will hopefully prevent is Kev the kitchen fitter or Barry the bathroom fitter carrying out electrical work. It is as close to a licence trade we are ever likely to get and it works very well for gas. Have you seen their rates lately?

 

[Andy™]

but still, elecsa wanted £3 per notification. now if im doing mostly odd jobs like that, i can do 10 + per day. so thats an extra £30 per day, or £150 per week.

then there is all the extra hassle of notifying everything. not happening

 

[Essex1]

but still, elecsa wanted £3 per notification. now if im doing mostly odd jobs like that, i can do 10 + per day. so thats an extra £30 per day, or £150 per week.

then there is all the extra hassle of notifying everything. not happening

You pass it on. Everyone will need to do the same so it will be an even playing field. I know it is very unlikely but it is what I think will stop us becoming an even worse trade.

 

[Murdoch]

Might get some respect as a trade then. It is only a click on a website for me.

Like you say you will never stop mates in the pub. What it will hopefully prevent is Kev the kitchen fitter or Barry the bathroom fitter carrying out electrical work. It is as close to a licence trade we are ever likely to get and it works very well for gas. Have you seen their rates lately?

That will never happen!

 

[Andy™]

You pass it on. Everyone will need to do the same so it will be an even playing field. I know it is very unlikely but it is what I think will stop us becoming an even worse trade.

the only winners in your plan are the scams. everyone else loses

 

[Essex1]

the only winners in your plan are the scams. everyone else loses

The schemes don't bother me. I earn a lot of money thanks to them.

 

[jdmjrmdam]

If we remove technical expertise and qualifications from the debate (The Theory) then it seems to me that often the issue with people who are not time served is they haven't mastered the craft of their trade whether that's reflected in the lack of basic cable craft or the inability it terminate a cable in a CU.

Out interest if we were to compare number of good vs number of bad installations in the domestic environment with good vs bad in the small to medium commercial environment. How does it compare?

Assuming that there are less bad jobs in the commercial environment why do you think that is?

Just wondering ☺

 

[Andy™]

so far its now 3 month without being in a scam, and so far it hasnt made any difference. if anything, its busier than usual

 

[Lurch]

but still, elecsa wanted £3 per notification. now if im doing mostly odd jobs like that, i can do 10 + per day. so thats an extra £30 per day, or £150 per week.

 You could pay less than £1.

then there is all the extra hassle of notifying everything. not happening

Notifying is ticking a box as I fill out the cert as I usually would.

so far its now 3 month without being in a scam, and so far it hasnt made any difference. if anything, its busier than usual

I managed 10 years, got fed up of explaining to people what part p is why it is rubbish. CBA any more, just notify it and be done with it.

 

[Andy™]

so you fill in a cert for something basic like changing a light switch?!

 

[Lurch]

so you fill in a cert for something basic like changing a light switch?!

I did have another reply here but then I got what you were getting at. For changing a switch we could do with a MMWC! I would always try and get Zs, Zdb and IR as a minimum anyway.

 

[Essex1]

If we alter a circuit in any way we hand over a cert. Even if just changing a light switch. As electricians we are putting that circuit we have just isolated back into service. We need to ensure it is safe.

 

[ProDave]

If we alter a circuit in any way we hand over a cert. Even if just changing a light switch. As electricians we are putting that circuit we have just isolated back into service. We need to ensure it is safe.

speak for yourself.