How to deal with RCD tripping - external noise

[daba]

The DNO do NOT work to BS7671 so that is irrelevant to them.Haste have NOT done a proper or recognised test,

I dont know what else you want to hear.

The best idea I have heard so far is that the overlay should have rodded N to E at every spur to a premises, on the basis that the premises were PME. The person who told me that said that they would not have done it properly, or at all, relying on a N-E bonding in the substation.

That is the type of insider information that is important in a case like this. The DNO don't even have any work assignments, plans, or knowledge of the trench they dug in the pavement outside my house. It is there for all to see. Why would they dig a trench and then just fill it in again, ffs....

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 01:19 ---------- Previous post was made at 01:10 ----------

None AFAIAA ESQCR is their reg.First thing you need to do is a proper OR test before you can go accusing other people of anything. Only my opinion mind,

But that test result for your property proves nothing, you could have a DNO fault, or you could have an internal fault, that test has NOT ruled you install out, that is what makes it worthless,

Do you really want to get this sorted, or just to blame someone?

Get an independent test done and bill the DNO for it if it probes your install to be A-Ok .

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 01:02 ---------- Previous post was made at 01:02 ----------

Ootherwise you will.end up in circles

Hopefully the DNO will accept the report done by the people they paid to test the installation - otherwise they've just pi$$ed into the wind.....

 

[Sharpend]

Daba, whilst I can understand your predicament, and you appear to be an intelligent person, I am somewhat taken aback by your approach to this. You have been told on numerous occasions by qualified and respected members that you need to pay for a full report to be done on your install to rule out any possibility that there is a fault from within your property. Once you have established and PROVED this then you have something to take the fight to the DNO. Without it you are just being fobbed off. If you are happy to accept that HASTE, who are appointed by the DNO, have carried out satisfactory investigations then I'm afraid you are not as intelligent as I first thought. Think of it this way, if you were involved in an accident and the defendant sent you to see their doctor would you accept his/her findings or would want an INDEPENDANT report done?

In order for you to get the DNO to notice you, then you are going to have to put a case together to support your allegations. So find a respectable electrician in your area, have an INDEPENDANT report done and progress from there. At the moment you are just making assumptions and allegations. You may even want to get onto your local council and get confirmation from them as to who requested permission to dig up the road and for what purpose. Otherwise as our esteemed colleague Steptoe has suggested you are going to go round in circles. All the best.

 

[Voltimax]

Ever hear the phrase 'flogging a dead horse'? Well gentlemen that's what this thread has been from the start. Here's another phrase for the OP; I wants don't get.

This is now becoming a pointless exercise. For anyone here to give the best advice possible, they need to see and test the installation themselves. I can't believe this argument (and that's what this has been), has gone on for as long as this. Give it up.

 

[daba]

I give up

 

[OnOff]

I give up

People ARE trying to help! You may well have an external fault causing your issues but before then, simply put, you /your testers HAVE NOT done the dead tests for a start in the accepted / prescribed manner. Irrespective of who they are. Go and buy Brian Scadden's book for instance on inspection and testing and have a good read. Have the tests done properly THEN come back and present them. Think about it, a global IR test which is what appears to have been done will give an accumulative result from all the circuits together. It might even be a temperature thing with expansion somewhere for whatever reason causing a momentary IR issue on a circuit. ONLY testing individual, isolated circuits will you stand and chance of narrowing it down if it's your side.

 

[steptoe]

DNO NOT rodding N-E at every joint is NOT insider information, if fairly common knowledge, yet another assumption from you via some 3rd party that is trying to sound knowledgeable.

 

[daba]

DNO NOT rodding N-E at every joint is NOT insider information, if fairly common knowledge, yet another assumption from you via some 3rd party that is trying to sound knowledgeable.

I assumed nothing, I just passed on what I was told.

But the question remains : SHOULD the DNO be rodding every joint, or not !? Are there any regs for distribution?

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 01:35 ---------- Previous post was made at 01:27 ----------

People ARE trying to help! You may well have an external fault causing your issues but before then, simply put, you /your testers HAVE NOT done the dead tests for a start in the accepted / prescribed manner. Irrespective of who they are. Go and buy Brian Scadden's book for instance on inspection and testing and have a good read. Have the tests done properly THEN come back and present them. Think about it, a global IR test which is what appears to have been done will give an accumulative result from all the circuits together. It might even be a temperature thing with expansion somewhere for whatever reason causing a momentary IR issue on a circuit. ONLY testing individual, isolated circuits will you stand and chance of narrowing it down if it's your side.

They were not MY testers, they were sent by the DNO to do a "wiring test". If the tests the DNO commissioned were inadequate then it's not my fault.

The problem is not my side - it's DNO / Pub - too much correlating evidence to anything else.

 

[Sharpend]

Daba I despair at your ignorance, I suggest that you deal with it in your way because it is clear that you really don't want our advice.

What I will say is that there are probably thousands of properties if not millions that are all fed from the grid in a similar fashion to yours and without every joint being staked, and has been for as many years as I care to remember without problems. So if you are adamant that it is the DNO good luck, because the evidence that you have presented is obviously not enough to satisfy them, it is only circumstantial not factual proof. Good luck.

 

[daba]

Daba I despair at your ignorance, I suggest that you deal with it in your way because it is clear that you really don't want our advice. What I will say is that there are probably thousands of properties if not millions that are all fed from the grid in a similar fashion to yours and without every joint being staked, and has been for as many years as I care to remember without problems. So if you are adamant that it is the DNO good luck, because the evidence that you have presented is obviously not enough to satisfy them, it is only circumstantial not factual proof. Good luck.

Thank-you for calling me "ignorant"

I won't return the compliment.

I hope you languish in the despair I'm causing you, I'll not lose any sleep over it :good night: .

What I will say is that I'm not dealing with it in my own way - I am co-operating with the DNO in every respect, who should really be looking at why the grid is being impulsed by another consumer, rather than saying I have a fault. They now have results from a test they commissioned which I'm hoping makes them sit up and take notice. If the tests weren't done properly, why did they employ HASTE to do them in the way they did, or should they have requested a "proper" test ?

So far, there isn't a single piece of evidence, either factual or circumstantial, that points to a fault in my installation.

 

[samson337]

Turn the main switch off in your cu. Now light light a candle, job done :slap

 

[daba]

Turn the main switch off in your cu. Now light light a candle, job done :slap

Cool, I never thought of that !!

funny'ish, but very childish - if you've got nothing constructive to say, why make the effort ?

 

[steptoe]

daba,

now, after all this to-ing and fro-ing, you have got to the stage where you are going to have to bite the bullet and cough up some cash,

either get a PROPER PIR and PAT done on your property (and appliances) and prove it is/they are not at fault or else stop trying to blame someone else for the fact you have a defective install, or defective goods in your install.

 

[Riggy]

So far, there isn't a single piece of evidence, either factual or circumstantial, that points to a fault in my installation.

You mean other than an obviously mis-measured Ze value, a low IR value, and an intermittently tripping RCD?

There are none so blind as those who will not see!

 

[daba]

daba,now, after all this to-ing and fro-ing, you have got to the stage where you are going to have to bite the bullet and cough up some cash,

either get a PROPER PIR and PAT done on your property (and appliances) and prove it is/they are not at fault or else stop trying to blame someone else for the fact you have a defective install, or defective goods in your install.

Steptoe, just answer this one question, and please at least try to be honest....

1. Your board starts tripping after your DNO puts you on a new supply cable....

2. Your supply has been trip-free since your CU was installed....

3. You make a connection that another consumer is tripping your board....

4. You document and confirm that the trips you get only occur when they switch off a reactive load....

5. You let your DNO test your RCD, and it meets BS spec....

6. Your DNO still insists you change the RCD at your expense....

7. The DNO sends an independant tester who passes your intallation....

Exactly what would you do now ?

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 01:41 ---------- Previous post was made at 01:25 ----------

You mean other than an obviously mis-measured Ze value, a low IR value, and an intermittently tripping RCD?There are none so blind as those who will not see!

Regardless of Ze or Zs measurement, I'm ecstatic that my earth path is a good one, it serves to protect me and mine. If it had been HIGH and incorrectly measured, then I'd be doing something about it, PDQ.

And to correct you, the RCD trips are NOT, repeat NOT intermittent. It is well documented that the trips are simultaneous with another consumer on the local supply turning off a substantial load.

I was called ignorant earlier, now blind.

Let's stop the insults - they serve no purpose.

As for the IR measurement that Haste recorded, that would only allow a current of less than 1mA to flow.

 

[Sharpend]

Daba I don't know how many ways the same advice can be put to you.

As it stands you have an issue that you firmly believe is a result of the DNO'a work on a neighbouring property. The DNO have instigated various superficial investigations to the problem and told you that all is well. Ask yourself this, do you firmly believe that the DNO want to go to the expense of digging up the recent work to investigate any further. They probably see the problem as; a nuisance trip that is. It putting you at risk.

You have sought advice from qualified professional people who understand the principles of electricity and have chosen to ignore that advice. We are neither agreeing or disagreeing with your version of events, however as it stands no members have carried out their own investigative work on your behalf.

So the only way to progress is for you to pay out for this work to be done, by persons totally INDEPENDANT of the DNO. You need to collect your own evidence at you own expense, however these expense will be reimbursed by the DNO, on proof that they are at fault.

I would suggest that you seek the advice of a solicitor as you are aggrieved by the problem of someone else's making. Many solicitors will give you some advice over the phone, some may even give you a half hour free consultation. I feel that you may find that they will advise you in a similar vein to what my colleagues and I have offered I just wonder whether you will take their advice in the same manner as you have received ours?

Best of luck, I sincerely hope that you can move forward with this rather than procrastinating with what you have at present.

 

[Brian 157]

Many years ago a customer claimed his (30mA) RCD tripped at 6 AM everyday, except on the next-door neighbour's day off... We replaced the RCD & it happened again.

Being the sort of bloke who likes a challenge I went with the collegue who replaced the RCD & we IR tested all the circuits in the house, we found low N-E on upstairs lighting. We traced this to a chocky-block connector above the metal-backed bathroom light which had melted slightly leaving the neutral connection touching the earthed metal-work.

Our theory was that something next door (dodgy teasmade maybe) was leaking to earth & the current travelling up our client's earth rod to the MET, up the lighting circuit CPC, through the melted connector block and back down the lighting circuit neutral & tripping the RCD because of too much neutral current.

Replacing the connector with a properly installed JB cured both the IR fault and the 6AM RCD tripping.

 

[Riggy]

Brian 157 - that's a practical example of what I was hinting at back in post #59.

Rather than find the dodgy connector strip our man seems to want the DNO to fix the teasmade for him.

 

[paul b b]

Ok coming in late here but going to have my 2pennerth worth....

Daba...if you are convinced that your rcd is tripping at a certain time due to external influences then demand an onsite meeting with dno at said time so they can see for them selves that dead on 7pm when Brian walks out of the pub and leans on the porch timber whilst he lights his extra strong camel cigarette that you rcd trips. If they don't see it for themselves they won't believe it.

on another note...are you sure your not pme and your rod is still in? It could be as the post above says, internal fault triggered by external fault up your rod or even water pipe.

You really need to get a pir done though. not just for this but for saftey !

 

[jopo]

was going to post something similar to brian157. that pretty well nails it as an example.

i dont doubt the rcd tripped. however if your house and appliances are in top nick i.e no neutral - earth faults. There is no reason for a rcd to trip. granted there may be an external issue, but that is not your problem. you must prove that your place is compliant. read brians post again and hopefully that will explain why others are stressing Individual IR tests are required.

there should be no low ohm b/t Nand E on individual cct testing. i have not read the whole 7 pages daba. so i apoligise for asking a question that may have already been answered. What is the RCD protecting. whole of house? An individual cct? if so what may appliances may be on that cct. thanks.

 

[Brian 157]

On the subject of the low Ze for a TT I'm reminded of another time when at a farm cottage we had an earth electrode resistance of over 400 ohms but some really low Zs readings on circuits (below 0.5 ohms). Curiosity got the better of us so we disconnected the CPC of the immersion flex (1.5mm), sure enough Zs values went up to 400+ ohms...