Kitchen fitters not happy

[M107]

OSG page 160, section 8.4I suggest you go back to the clients with your OSG and show him this section. Also arm the client with the tech help line numbers for NIC, ELECSA and NAPIT and invite him to call any of them and they will back you up.

Tell the client that you bear him no ill feeling over the matter but that you intend to bill the fitter 2 or 3 hours for fitting the appliances.

Send your bill to the fitter with a photcopy of the OSG section and a letter explaining that his "electrician" was completely wrong. Invite him to call any of the tech lines at his lesuire. Ask him to settle in 7 days.

It is vital to make sure the client understands you were quite right as they were already a client of yours and you would like to keep it that way (you could point this out to the fitter - that he has potentially scuppered your relationship with a good client).

:Applaud

Oh yes I could be doing this....maybe sending the bill direct to Optiplan

 

[PC Electrics]

Make sure the client knows that the fitters work should generate a cert and notification. Perhaps the client should let you look it over before he pays his final installment.

Just because they are a 'big' company doesn't mean they can go around 'dissing' other people and their work - especially when there is nothing wrong with that work.

Ask your client if he would support a letter of complaint from you to the company concerned (by allowing you to use his name in the letter). Send your letter along with a copy of the supporting documentation and your bill. Oh, and don't forget to charge for the letter!

 

[NozSpark]

Idoubt any certs will be forthcoming from the kitchen fitters....

about 12 or 18 months ago one "almost killed" me.. I was cutting the back of a unit out with a Fein to fit a socket (on the wall) and all I heard was a hiss and the boiler "chuntering"... I called my plumber / gas fitter mate who was doing the bathroom and after isolating the gas we discovered that the kitchen fitter hadn't soldered one of the joints he'd "done" and that I'd disturbed it.... and there was me using the Fein <2 foot from the leaking joint!

bad day explodebad day explodebad day explodebad day explodebad day explodebad day explode

 

[PC Electrics]

Have a look at their website under careers / kitchen fitters, first sentence. Use that in your letter.

 

[green-hornet]

I would be very tempted to write a letter outlining serious concerns regarding the practice the fitters have adopted, and I would ask if this is a common practice within this company.

If they do this on a daily basis they want closing down, they are obviously dangerous to the general public, and adopt scare tatics to secure extra works that are not required.

Scum like this should be prosecuted and removed from ever doing any work for the domestic market, who deserve full protection from them.

I have just taken over a contract, its commercial so a different kettle of fish so to speak, but with my first invoice I included a minor works certificate, the guy was totally amazed that I had done this and every contractor he has used before never included one.

When I told him why and how it not only protects me but as the main contractor protects him, he gave me another

 

[ianmacd]

Well I have called in to the customer & she assures me she didnt in any way doubt my capabilities & professionalisim:BlushingThe kitchen fitter on the otherhand...not to many good words did she have for him.... All the bloke did was slate my work......wrong coloured cables been used we now use grey sheathed cable bet this is black/red inside the old colours....shows what he doesnt know..yes I'd used some LSF with white sheath. The cooker circuit kept him moaning

The customer said all he kept on about was "my mate who is my usual sparks say's"bad day explode

Anyway I called round & gave her all the certs invoice & a letter with all my cable calculations & quotes from BRB OSG & green building regs guide.

She invited me in to take a look at what the bloke has done so far:

The 2x sockets (I extended rf) I'd mounted below worktop height for appliances to be plugged into, he has now re-extended with the view to leaving them laid on the floor under the cupboards or fitting them inside cupboards going by the long lengths of cables.

He has left both these extensions wedged behind the draw unit & under sink, terminated into 15amp chock block with a strip of gaffa tape covering the screw top terminals.......

I wonder will any testing take place? (told her to keep my certs hidden so results cant be copied) & will any certs or notification be undertaken?

The kitchen company are a well know company in Wiltshire Hampshire Berkshire & Surrey areas.

Glad to hear the customer is on your side and I think you should keep up pressure about the building regs cert and remind the customer that although you will be/have issued one for your work it will not cover this cowboys and they need to get one for this work being the home owner. Did the customer ask for this work to be done on the electrical system or is this cowboy just doing it off his own back?

 

[initforthemoney]

Strictly speaking, spurring from a 32A 6mm radial circuit in 2.5mm is bad practice.

 

[Andy™]

Strictly speaking, spurring from a 32A 6mm radial circuit in 2.5mm is bad practice.

may not be standard practice, but its no different to a 2.5 spur from 32a ring main

also, youll find there is a nice little diagram in 7671 of a 2.5 spur taken from a 4mm 32A radial..

 

[tom1]

Strictly speaking, spurring from a 32A 6mm radial circuit in 2.5mm is bad practice.

i knew you would say not sure why i knew but i new.

i dont see how its different from spur at origin on a ring, spur at any point in the ring,

2.5 mm spur of a 32amp socket radial that could be in 4 or 6 mm

 

[tom1]

[quote name='Andy

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I always fit a duel purpose box with a 13a socket & a cooker outlet fed from a 45A switch above the worktop

So do i.

As far as i am concerned, most built in hob/oven arrangments using either a standard or duel connection outlets i see are not suitable if,

either the hob is gas and the supply is for the ignition only & should be 3A rated or,

A fan oven is used which should have 13 or 16A protection,

When the sole protection is at the consumer unit & is 32 or 40A rated

 

[initforthemoney]

[quote name='Andy

 

[Badger]

I agree, and there is no reg to back up my statement.However, going off topic slightly, i have just done a PIR on a property where an extractor fan has been taken from the output side of a 45Amp shower pull switch.

That got a 2 from me, but then, how is this any different from a 2.5 on a 32Amp MCB (in effect)?

i have to agree with initforthemoney on this one, bad practice to spur from a cooker circuit in 2.5mm

 

[Apache]

I agree, and there is no reg to back up my statement.However, going off topic slightly, i have just done a PIR on a property where an extractor fan has been taken from the output side of a 45Amp shower pull switch.

That got a 2 from me, but then, how is this any different from a 2.5 on a 32Amp MCB (in effect)?

The difference would be if you spurred off to something with a fuse that would protect the section of the cable with a lower current carrying capacity (FCU).

Also thought was a reg that a shower was on a dedicated circuit, but perfectly acceptable* to spur off in a smaller sized cable?

*ie no reg against it!

 

[tom1]

in 4 money, what size cable was supplying the fan?

pritty sure ther is a reg saying overload protection is not required for fixed applinces unlikley to overload, some thing along them lines

 

[initforthemoney]

It was supplied with 1.5mm2.

The protective device (MCB) is to protect the cable and not whats on the end of it.

This is where circuit design is important.

If true about overload, why do we fuse down in spurs and plugtops?

 

[initforthemoney]

The difference would be if you spurred off to something with a fuse that would protect the section of the cable with a lower current carrying capacity (FCU).

The protection would only be for the appliance cable and not the circuit cable.

 

[tom1]

like mentioned shower should have its own circuit, and was the zs from the 1.5 low enough for the fuse

i could prob find the reg if u want

 

[Graham Lister]

i have to agree with initforthemoney on this one, bad practice to spur from a cooker circuit in 2.5mm

I personally use 4mm but using 2.5mm isnt bad practice, 2.5 is protected against overload by the oven fuse and in case of a fault on the 2.5 I have no doubt it would trip the 32A breaker if the circuit is electrically sound.

The only reason I use 4mm is that some people think 2.5mm looks rough even when it fully complies with the regs. I like to please everybody so for the sake of not having any problems later I just use 4mm so people cant come in and say look hes spurred off the cooker circuit in 2.5mm. Strange world this when you can comply with regs and people still say its bad practice.

 

[tom1]

433.3.1