Kitchen fitters not happy

[Graham Lister]

If fan has inline fuse fitted then I would not even code, let alone a 2. Fairly trivial in the scheme of things seen on PIRs.

 

[Theorysparky]

Firstly

2.5mm spurred from 6mm 32 amp mcb

if at the end of the 2.5mm there is an fcu or socket there is no problem with that. The plug fuse is there to protect the appliance cable

1.5mm from output side of shower switch to feed fan

again if correctly fused for the fan there is no problem

same goes with the cooker outlet in 6mm feeding socket in 2.5mm for a gas hob

These scenario's i brought up on my last assessment and was told it isa acceptable ,,,,,but not best practice and should be avoided where possible.

This is difficult when adding to an installation,but on a new build it is just lazy.

On a assessment i had last year i had wired a garage with a utility room,everything was trunked to ceiling and fcu spurs were used to provide sockets for under unit washing machine.

i used 1.5mm as allowed in the BRB (I this to show my understanding of the regs)

my assessor picked this up and we had a constructive chat......

he said.....'where it complies to the regs its fine but consider this scenario'

'you cannot be sure in the future that the configuration will stay the same if Diyers start to add stuff.Having 1.5mm in the cct will be the weakest link so for the few pence it costs for 2.5mm why not use it instead'

Got me through that assessment no problems.....

 

[M107]

Glad to hear the customer is on your side and I think you should keep up pressure about the building regs cert and remind the customer that although you will be/have issued one for your work it will not cover this cowboys and they need to get one for this work being the home owner. Did the customer ask for this work to be done on the electrical system or is this cowboy just doing it off his own back?

Off his own back..

They (optiplan) originally wanted to include electrical work in the quote, but my customer said they'd preferred me to do it as they trust me & have used my services since buying the house....(full periodic & cu change & garage conversion electrical work.)

All optiplan fitter is supposed to do is install the pelmet lights + hob hood & connect oven/hob.

He didn't like me using a switched fuse spur off rf to give him a supply for the pelmet lights either.... customer requested a switch on the wall below the cupboards, so thats what she got after I explained what I was planning on doing.

 

[binky]

Somwhere, deep in the regs is a section on cable design which is about sizing cables by CPC size ie if CPC can cope with likely fault current for that part of the circuit, then it complies - I'll have to do some reading to find it again as I haven't looked at this for many years. I came across it whilst investigating why a circuit I found which was supplying a cooker, a shower, 2 off sockets and a boiler hadn't melted.

 

[M107]

Strictly speaking, spurring from a 32A 6mm radial circuit in 2.5mm is bad practice.

I haven't.....the whole circuit is in 6mm terminated to (when I go & put oven in) one cooker outlet (for hob) & one fused spur (for oven).....the only cable that will not be 6mm will be the appliance cables & I suspect they are in the region of (because I cant be arrsssed to check) 4mm for hob & 1.5/2.5mm for the oven.

The only pro argument I can see for you comment is the possibility that the ocpd may be changed for a higher rated one at some point in the future, with out any checks being made as to what cables are in use at accessory end.

Apart from that it would be ok & not a problem, but we have become set in our ways with regard to working practices.

Take Ring Finals they get thrown in willy nilly because thats how you were shown as an apprentice how sockets are wired, same as the bloke who taught you was shown by the bloke who taught him & so on (rf's came into being at the end of the ww2 due to cable shortages)..... why? theres nothing wrong with a radial, yes the RF has it place where it is the right tool for the job so's to speak, but dont discount other methods just because it isnt common practice.

 

[ianmacd]

Off his own back..They (optiplan) originally wanted to include electrical work in the quote, but my customer said they'd preferred me to do it as they trust me & have used my services since buying the house....(full periodic & cu change & garage conversion electrical work.)

All optiplan fitter is supposed to do is install the pelmet lights + hob hood & connect oven/hob.

He didn't like me using a switched fuse spur off rf to give him a supply for the pelmet lights either.... customer requested a switch on the wall below the cupboards, so thats what she got after I explained what I was planning on doing.

Then the customer has grounds to not pay for that electrical work and heve them pay you to fix it again. Unless that guy is Part P registered too (what are the chances?) then LABC and your little club should also be informed about someone undertaking works without LABC approval in a kitchen.

 

[Theorysparky]

Then the customer has grounds to not pay for that electrical work and heve them pay you to fix it again. Unless that guy is Part P registered too (what are the chances?) then LABC and your little club should also be informed about someone undertaking works without LABC approval in a kitchen.

And what happens ?????

Nothing

Education of the public is required

 

[Lee321]

isn't this back to its not the person carrying out the work its the client requesting the work commiting the crime?

 

[ianmacd]

It would seem in this case the client didn't request the work. That ammounts to criminal damage.

 

[M107]

I have informed the customer of the testing certification & part P notification that this fitter is now obliged to undertake......she is right on side & is not going to ask the fitter or company about it, but is waiting to see if any of the above are forth comming. If not we are going to put together a letter to scheme operator & BC.

 

[ElectekAir]

I have informed the customer of the testing certification & part P notification that this fitter is now obliged to undertake......she is right on side & is not going to ask the fitter or company about it, but is waiting to see if any of the above are forth comming. If not we are going to put together a letter to scheme operator & BC.

Has she paid thier bell yet? if not get her to pay the balance by credit card if they don't give certs then she can complain to the card company about services not recived this way the kitchen fitters will have to act and could loose some of thier money.

If they don't give the certs do you honnestly think that anyone will do anything about it?? i DON'T

 

[ianmacd]

Mention rogue traders a few times and take lots of pics .

 

[Voltimax]

I'd be having a chat with that kitchen fitter personally if it was me.

In the past when someone has slated my work and I'm told by the customer, I make a point of turning up on-site. I then go about 'educating' these people, showing them I know more about my job than they do

 

[M107]

I'd be having a chat with that kitchen fitter personally if it was me.In the past when someone has slated my work and I'm told by the customer, I make a point of turning up on-site. I then go about 'educating' these people, showing them I know more about my job than they do

This will probably happen tomorrow Volti, as the oven will be on site in the afternoon.......

Watch this space

 

[PC Electrics]

Give him both barrels, M! Make sure he knows he's out of order and leave him believing you'll be complaining to his MD. He should be in fear for his job.

 

[Lee321]

 

[green-hornet]

I'd be having a chat with that kitchen fitter personally if it was me.In the past when someone has slated my work and I'm told by the customer, I make a point of turning up on-site. I then go about 'educating' these people, showing them I know more about my job than they do

Show them some Kata at the same time:innocent

 

[batty]

I agree, and there is no reg to back up my statement.However, going off topic slightly, i have just done a PIR on a property where an extractor fan has been taken from the output side of a 45Amp shower pull switch.

That got a 2 from me, but then, how is this any different from a 2.5 on a 32Amp MCB (in effect)?

So was fan fused down in any way?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Strictly speaking, spurring from a 32A 6mm radial circuit in 2.5mm is bad practice.

Since when has complying with current wiring regs been bad practice? :| :_|

Regulation 433.2, Page 74

Position of devices for protection against overload

Now 433.2.1 states location of device for protection (or fuse as we normally call it! ) should occur where change in conductor size occurs..

BUT

ALSO says regulation 433.2.2 can take precedence!

wherein the Ole oracle states... [paraphrase version]

"Providing there are no branches in the circuit the fuse can be within 3m of the change of conductor size!!".

SO....

32A 6.0mm then to 2.5mm then to other suitably rated fuse within 3m of the 6.0mm is all good and happy practice IMHO!

:|

so

you personally may not like it... But can't call it "BAD PRACTICE"! :|

Guinness

So Mr for-the-money I shall have to disagree on that point....

can still have a Guinness though ......

as long as you don't let down me trailer tyres! :Blushing:^O:^O

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

M107.... :Salute

all I can say is........

GO KICK SOME ASS m8!

can we have a water fight.....

Your kitchen fitters -vs- the "Forum Taverner's XI"

Me, KME, Steps, Patch, L-Plate, are already filling our pump action super soaker's!!!!

think we may end up with MORE than 'XI' though..

Cuz

GH,

Mikel,

Admin2,

Davetheglittz

Badger

Wozz

Noz

Andy

SlipSlap

tom1

are all going out to buy new water pistols first thing in the morning!

So just PM us all the postcode & were ALL coming tomorrow!!!

Think others may be coming up in reserves cuz Andy slammed the dormitory door too loud and I think a few others woke up! X(

Admin can't come cuz he's go to look after the little Admins from school!! :innocent

Dekes already left..

he don't even know the address?

says hes on the M40 south is that any good??? :^O:C

Brians doing map reading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:yellow card

GuinnessGuinness

p.s.

Mr Theakstons Old Peculiar is lubricating very well at the moment!!!!

ROTFWLROTFWLROTFWLROTFWL:coat