New Build House Do The Regulations Require...

[Rooster]

Hi

In a new build house, three floors, built under current regulations, is there any requirement for there to be two way switching for the lighting in a hall with staircase?

ie. so that you can go upstairs then switch off the lower floor light, or indeed the other way round?

Either Electrical Regs or building regs in general?

 

[NozSpark]

How about common sense..

I don't think there's any specific reg, but your customers won't think much of you if you don't install 2 way switching up the stairs

 

[steptoe]

electrical regs arent law,

anmd AFAIAA there isnt any building reg to state so,

but, there is an electrical reg to state convenience,

have you got a newbuild without 2way switching?

a lot of houses do not have the means to turn off the hall light from upstairs, its very very common, almost standard i would say,

usually the only light with 2way switching would be the landing light,

perhaps you should have specified this on purchase if you bought on spec.

ah, just re-read,

yep, there is something about stairwell lighting,

totally different to hallway lighting.

so, is it a stairwell, or a hall?

Id class more than one flight of stairs a stairwell, you could get away with bottom floor being one way, but middle and top should deffo be 2 way,

and anyone half decent would have all 3 as 2way

 

[OnOff]

2-way switch at bottom, intermediate switch on the next floor and maybe any mid flight landings and 2-way switch at the top.......at least then you can switch on/off from any level. Avoid coming out onto landings and having to reach across the top of the stairs etc. Very easy to add in more intermediates.

 

[kerching]

when I was serving my time i was told that 'you should never have to walk around in the dark'. so wherever possible I put 2 ways and intermediates where required.

I only do high end refurbs or new builds. I did a large house a couple of years ago, all the gf was open plan. customer wanted to be able to turn a light off from whichever room she was in if she saw light on in another room. she was paying.

having said all of that.....what Steps said is most often the case, 2 way to upstairs, 1 way to downstairs

 

[steptoe]

I done a new build once and builder called me back as owners not happy [biggish site, Id already done about 15houses]

no switch at top of stairs,

so Im standing at top of stairs with clerk of works and man & lady of house, they want to know how to turn the light off after they have came up to go to bed,

the bloke was getting really stroppy tbh at how stupid I had been not putting a switch at the top of the stairs and I must be an idiot and how could they possibly live with the landing light on all night.

I pointed down the hall, about 3m long til the first bedroom and said,

"there is a switch there, and one at the other end beside the other 2 doors,

surely you dont want to walk down the hall in the dark?"

ahhhhh, it then twigged on them.,,,,,,,,,

 

[binky]

I love it when that happens, and the client goes straight into, "you're a thick tradesman and don't know ****, and then you wait and wait ........" ]

 

[Murdoch]

2 way to hall and landing is the most sensible approach IMHO

 

[ProDave]

+1 to above. It's what I normally do.

 

[Rooster]

Just to clarify..

It's a new build house and just had the snagging visit prior to completing in a few days time, so putting together the snagging list.

There were the usual paint scuffs, oven not fixed in, several sockets not working etc etc put on list, 

However I didn't see any two way switches for the hall lights, at least to go up 1st flight and then switch off downstairs hall light. Reading the above perhaps best wait til we can get in again and check again whats going on.

Re hall or stairwell I've no idea what you'd describe it as. It's a 3 storey terraced house. You enter the property into a hall with doors to other rooms and a staircase to 1st floor, hall with doors to rooms and a staircase to top floor. It's all within one private residence, not a shared stair to numerous property.

The developer doesn't seem particularly interested in doing anything and I suspect the most we'll get done is what he is strictly contracted to do. The contract requires him to meet current regulations so that's why I asked! 

Also there is an outside light above the front door operated by a PIR.

There didn't seem to be a light switch for this, agent said that's normal it only switched by the PIR.

Is that correct? I'd have thought you should be able to switch it off from a light switch as well.

For instance to change a light bulb, seems the only way to switch it off is to switch off the lighting circuit at the consumer board.

Any regs on this?

 

[ProDave]

Just to clarify..

...

However I didn't see any two way switches for the hall lights, at least to go up 1st flight and then switch off downstairs hall light. Reading the above perhaps best wait til we can get in again and check again whats going on.

The "normal" is just 2 way switching on the landing light.

So you turn on the first floor landing light. Turn off the downstairs hall light, then go up to bed. Turn on the bedroom light, turn off the landing light.

Personally I like to add the ability to turn off the downstairs hall light from the first floor, but that's not very common.

As this is a 3 storey house you want the same thing carried on to the next floor as well.

It's not clear from your post, but am I to take it that you are the buyer, and you are compiling a snagging list to present to the builder?

If so then I doubt you will get any luck by complaining you can't turn off the hall light from the first floor as that is not a normal thing to need to do (unless you just forgot to turn it off before going upstairs)

There's a big difference between what is nice, and what you would do if designing your own house, and what is "essential" and what a mass market builder will provide.

 

[Rooster]

Yes looking at this as a buyer compiling a snagging list.

That's why I wanted to check what the regulations require as opposed to just what would be good to have.

What about the outside light? Is that ok without any switch? 

 

[ProDave]

Yes there should be some form of isolation for an outside light.

Expect your builder to argue that you turn it off at the consumer unit before changing a lamp.

Welcome to the world of new build mass produced houses.  I'm willing to bet there are plenty of other things "wrong" with it, like barely adequate levels of insulation etc.  (I don't have a lot of faith in most of the building industry. they have a track record of doing just enough and no more)

 

[kerching]

I would be concerned about "some sockets not working"

This should NOT really come up on a snagging list as "usually" the installation has been tested correctly in the firat place

Just saying

 

[Murdoch]

You should be asking to see the EIC.

 

[Rooster]

You should be asking to see the EIC.

We have a copy of the EIC already.

The sockets that don't work are random odd ones, not all on one ring, and they were all double sockets and one of the double sockets works and one doesn't so I presume it's a faulty fitting rather than wiring. Shouldn't be like that though, and I agree not good that it's been tested and passed like that.

I would be concerned about "some sockets not working"

This should NOT really come up on a snagging list as "usually" the installation has been tested correctly in the firat place

Just saying

Indeed I agree and it had been tested and certificate issued, but realistically what can you do about it other than point it out to developer.

I somehow doubt reporting it to The NICEIC would result in anything happening, Most  regulatory bodies seem to be there to protect their members rather than anything else, I assume it's the same in the electrical Industry.

 

[kerching]

Are you saying that half of. A Double socket works and the other side does not on all the faulty ones?

If so I would be concerned about the "others" that are working at present. These may fail shortly if there was a faulty batch.

Are they decent sockets or cheap 'contract' items?

Just wondering

 

[Rooster]

Are you saying that half of. A Double socket works and the other side does not on all the faulty ones?

If so I would be concerned about the "others" that are working at present. These may fail shortly if there was a faulty batch.

Are they decent sockets or cheap 'contract' items?

Just wondering

Yep that's whats happening.

Not sure on the make, pretty sure they were just plain white no outside markings, would have to take one off to find out and sales not completed yet, it was just a quick snagging visit. Luckily I took a socket tester as it seems a very common issue on new builds.

Again I'd agree about the other sockets but no chance of getting them changed by the developer, they won't do anything they don't have to. Haven't even agreed to sort these broken one's yet.

Hopefully the wiring is ok and he actually did the insulation/resistance checks as on the certificate and it's just cheap/duff fittings, which wouldn't be impossible to swap out for decent ones although that really shouldn't be necessary on a new installation.

Another question, would the built in electric oven not being fixed in be part any electric regulation or covered by the EIC certificate? (it's connected and powers up, it just isn't fixed in so wobbles around/pulls forward when door is opened)

 

[Murdoch]

Re the sockets you should really dig your heals in a try and make them change them all.

Sockets aren't that expensive for decent ones, and he'll hate having to get a person to do it as "it'll cost" - but this sort of stupid cost cutting needs to be sorted - after all your new home is costing a great deal of har earned money.

 

[NozSpark]

Why not just tell them that you will not be completing the transaction until at least the faulty sockets are replaced and the oven is installed correctly (in accordance with the manufacturers instructions)

People need to realise that cheap fittings aren't necessarily the cheapest option when you take into account the warranty replacements.